posted March 17, 2007 03:56 AM            

I HAVE SEEN MAGIC BOXES ON SEVERAL BOATS AT THE HILTON BEACH RACES. I UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY DO BUT I DON'T KNOW WAY YOU USE THEM? I AM STILL IN THE SET IT AND FORGET IT MODE WHEN SETTING THE JIB HAYLARD. BY THE WAY I AM NEW TO THE FORUM BUT HAVE LEARNED A LOT MORE ABOUT MY BOAT JUST FROM THE READING I HAVE DONE SO FAR. HAVE RACED "CLRACER" (COLIN) AT HILTON AND SEEN THE BACK OF HIS BOAT FROM AFAR. FROM MANITOBA WITH A KNOWN FLEET OF THREE BOATS AND HUNTING FOR MORE. SEA WOLF WAS SAVED FROM CERTAIN DEATH AFTER FINDING IT FULL OF WATER IN THE BUSH IN NOVEMBER WITH THE WATER JUST STARTING TO FREEZE. RESTORED AND RACING IN MANITOBA AND ONTARIO

posted March 17, 2007 04:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sea Wolf:

SEA WOLF WAS SAVED FROM CERTAIN DEATH AFTER FINDING IT FULL OF WATER IN THE BUSH IN NOVEMBER . . .

CONRAD
1755

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Hey Conrad, I saw the ski hill in Winnipeg last April. It fit the same description: full of water. The bottom of the ski hill was also the bottom of the flood canal. The lift resembled some kind of dredging machine parked for the weekend.

Colin has a clever multi-part halyard tensioner. Maybe he can post a photo of it. I suspect that most of the Wayfarer fleet has abandoned the Magic Box.

My 565er has 2:1 halyards. For example, the main halyard is fixed at the mast top, comes down to the head of the mainsail, returns to the the turning block at the mast top before coming down the mast to a cleat. The advantage is that the tension in the halyard is 1/2 of a 1:1 halyard and so the mast compression is 3/4 of a 1:1 system. You can use a lighter line so the weigh aloft may actually be less.

posted March 17, 2007 01:02 PM               

as for the magic box if you can find them most companys dont make anymore people have gone to what is called a cascade system lighter and way cheaper here is a drawing of the system i use i recomend also gettin a bag of small utillity rope 1/8" (canadian tire about $10 for 150') then you can get the right rope lengths befor you cut the good no stretch save $$

as for adjusting this is very important to do depending on weather the best to do if you can get a hold of a gps use it to test speed differences in different winds and just playing with the cascade and mark on mast where the fastest setting is in each wind just mark at bottom pulley i hope this helps
my boat and mast are put away so i cannot get a pic right now

posted March 17, 2007 05:53 PM            

Thanks to all who replied. I understand the use of the pullies to make it easier but the question for me is WHY and WHEN would I want to make an change in haylard tension. As for Hilton Beach this year Glenn and myself will be unable to attend because we are both on family trips at that time. That means two less Boats to take up the back of the pack. Maybe this will be the year that Colin bumps uncle Al of the top or maybe Steve!

posted March 18, 2007 04:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IslandBlue:
So the diagram shows the tension for the Jib i am not really understand what it means.

Dan
Sandpiper #760 Island Blue

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Dan, how many sleeps until Halifax? Are you packed and ready?

Here is my attempt to describe what is happening in Colin's diagram. In order to get more tension on the jib halyard than Colin can get by hand (and he is a powerful boy), he has devised this clever cascading system of pulleys.

First, the jib is hoisted. A ring has been installed in the halyard such that it is a few feet above the deck when the jib is fully hoisted.

Next, the tensioner is attached to the ring on the jib halyard. This connection is shown in the bubble at the top-right. Colin is using a ball-into-a-loop garter-belt type of quick-connect. No knot required. The blue ball is passed through the ring and then through the loop in the same cord. When tension is applied, the ball cinches itself in the loop and can't slip out.

At the lower right is the blue ball that pulls 2:1 on the first block, that pulls 2:1 on the second block, that pulls 2:1 on the third block, that pulls on the halyard that Jack built.

By my reckoning, the 3 pulleys create a 2³ = 8:1 advantage.

So Colin, Sapphire has her halyards inside the mast. Can you think of a way to attach to a halyard without a ring? Is there a type of cleat that could be used on the cascade for the halyard to belay?

posted March 18, 2007 07:05 PM               

The magic box - or its alternative so nicely diagrammed by Colin - is merely a means to an end, the end being that you are able to adjust jib halyard tension to get the jib luff entry just rounded enough to give you a manageable steering groove, but not so rounded that your pointing suffers too much. I have tried to simply outline this in my "Sail Shape for Dummies" at
http://www.wayfarer-international.org/WIT/race.related/SailShape.Trim.Care.Tuning/UncleAl/SimpleSailsContents.htm

more specifically at:
http://www.wayfarer-international.org/WIT/race.related/SailShape.Trim.Care.Tuning/UncleAl/98Genoa.htm

In recent years, I have found that we tend to tighten our jib halyard less than we used to. It is the first thing we go to and loosen if we feel our upwind performance feels slow: "When in doubt, let it out!" stikes again. We also do not oversheet the jib, ever, (see article referred to above) since making distance to windward is far more predicated on mainsail leech tension being at least adequate than on a cranked in jib (I think that's also covered in "Sail Shape for Dummies".)

Let me know if this still leaves you with questions (uncle-al3854@cogeco.ca).

Best regards,

Uncle Al (W3854)

posted March 19, 2007 04:30 AM            

At the MLTs, Windy Island was on the water and ready to sail in record time. One of the features that allowed a speedy set up was a boom snatch block for the 4:1 vang.

Once on the water in 10+ knot winds, Ab and I agreed that the genoa halyard required more tension. Windy Island had a wire halyard for the foresail. We unsnapped the vang from the boom, clipped it onto the halyard and Bob's your uncle, Al.

AL,thanks for the tuning guide. It's Bookmarked, soon to be printed and possibly laminated.

The Wayfarer mast is tapered. The CL mast is straight. Would you tune the CL differently? Would you tune differently for a keelboat with the same rig?

posted March 20, 2007 03:23 AM            

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Originally posted by elmet3:
I suppose we should worry about optimum sail shape while developing polars at Pelee Island. I am affraid that I don't follow it all. I wish I could see the wind, then I'd know what is optimum, or at least I'd be able to see the interplay of variables.

Back to work on that smoke generator.

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posted March 20, 2007 09:17 PM               

Set the sails for the conditions you have (light, medium or heavy) and go sailing. Adjust one variable at a time and record the difference. Don't get hung up on wind strength too much unless it really changes.

You should be able to develop a set of trends or indicators of performance.

Again, don't get hung up on too many adjustments. Keep them broad at first. Just working with the basic settings will give you tons of improved speed settings.

We used to have an International 14. The original owner was Dick Rose who came first at the first CORK regatta. His boat speed was amazing. 14s are usually a complex boat but Dick kept his boat very simple and concentrated on steering and waves. For example, the mast ram rig adjustment had 2 setting; heavy or light air.

3 ticklers will probably be enough guys.

posted March 21, 2007 03:22 AM            

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Originally posted by Darcy:

3 ticklers will probably be enough guys.

D'Arcy, Shortwave

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D'Arcy, is that 3 ticklers per sail? Or, just 3 ticklers on the headsail? And, where would you locate them?

posted March 21, 2007 06:09 PM               

On the main I'd again go with 3 back slightly and along the luff. A single tickler trailing off the main 3/4 of the way up the roach will help you tell how the air flows off your sail.

posted March 21, 2007 06:34 PM               

The trailing mainsail tickler is located behind the top batten on a Shark. That might be a tad high on a Sandpiper but it would be a good start. It should be flowing straight back when the sail is set perfectly.

Note some boats have a double lower tickler on their jibs. One will start to lift just slightly before the other. I personally wouldn’t worry about that level of accuracy. I suggest having only one for starters.

posted March 22, 2007 07:46 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Darcy:

Again, don't get hung up on too many adjustments. Keep them broad at first. Just working with the basic settings will give you tons of improved speed settings.

D'Arcy, Shortwave[/B]

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Hi, D'Arcy and gang:

I agree with you about keeping things simple. In that spirit, I started this morning to try to outline what we do when we race a Wayfarer or CL, which we do quite well. In reading this thread, I kept getting to places where people worried about settings, tuning, etc., and where I thought: "Heck, it's much simpler than that." Of course, now that I've started, explaining what I mean is taking longer than I had hoped. Still, my little blurb is showing promise, and I'm over half-way through. I'll let you know when it's done. There may be images, etc. and I think in my own inexperienced way, I will find it simpler to just post on my educational Wayfarer site, and announce the link here.

posted March 26, 2007 09:09 PM               

It took me longer than I anticipated - my simplified tuning summary got longer and illustrated as I amplified on the four simple basics. But the finished product is now posted on my wayfarer-international.org site in the WIT section at http://www.wayfarer-international.org/WIT/race.related/SailShape.Trim.Care.Tuning/Als.Upwind.Tuning.Basics/upwind.sail.tuning.html

Question and/or corrections welcomed.