posted February 12, 2008 12:57 PM            

1.
Author Topic:   Safe Return
archarzel
Member posted July 09, 2003 10:27 PM               
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Back on land once again.
We just returned from our island trip a two day sail out of Goulais Bay north to Mable Island the west to South Sandy Island then return home the following day.
This was my first trip outside the bay - Lake Supirior.
We left yesterday and had the fun of fighting a north wind all the way, I noticed that I could not sail into the wind very close. ? Should the jib sheets run outside or inside the stays -
I was outside but angle of attack was not great.
Or should I move the hardware farther back ?
High winds - chop - 3-5 foot waves mixed with 8 to 9 ft rollers it was a great afternoon
8 hours later we arrived beached her spent the night.
This mornings run was in very light winds all the way home. What wind there was just a breeze stayed at our backs.

Ken I beached her now should i pull her out and check/re-grease the lead screw ?
The beach was fine sand and we pulled up far because of weather conditions.

IP: 209.226.179.192

2.
Ken
Member posted July 10, 2003 10:34 AM               
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Jib sheets go outside the shrouds and lifelines (if any)
Make sure that your keel was fully down (93-96 turns) A partially retracted keel would certainly affect your pointing ability. Also make sure your rudder is kept fully down.

The sheet block is adjusted on the track as follows when adjusting your course just around the best beat close hauled.

The block is slid forward or back in order to make the jib luff evenly along it's length. Basically the right position is found to make the jib trim properly and it's left alone. The jib should trim fairly tight along the foot, just before a horizontal wrinkle is formed.

This adjustment is not really going to affect your performance on a Sandpiper...afterall...it's family boat, not a racing machine!

As for checking the keel screw after beaching......I've only beached mine once so I can't comment.
Try the screw...if it runs 96 turns free without binding, then it's probably OK.
The bottom of the keel screw is below the waterline so if your boat's kept in the water all season, any sand will probably wash out.

[This message has been edited by Ken (edited July 11, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Ken (edited July 13, 2003).]

IP: 141.117.20.18

3.
Darcy
Member posted July 10, 2003 10:52 AM               
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Sounds like a great sail!

To add to Ken's comments: Keep the boat flat. It doesn't always feel like your going as well upwind but you are. In the gusts you might even have the main out - half luffing, but because the boat is more level (not on its' ear) you will be moving faster and closer upwind.

Besides moving faster when flat, you will feel less weather helm on the rudder. This is a nice secure feeling when cruising (or racing for that matter) because you can steer the boat easier.

D'Arcy

IP: 64.229.176.66

4.
Darcy
Member posted July 10, 2003 03:08 PM               
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One more thought on making a boat go well to windward....

Some times we get too hung up on settings, proper sails, gear, etc. One of the best things you can do is just get a lot of time sailing. If your really keen; keep a log as to how your sails were set, wind strength, waves. (I have a waterproof one.) Over time you will develop a real good feel for the fine points of your boat and how it moves best.

Occasionally I get to helm on the boat I usually crew on. (When the owner is away) I just can't make the boat go as well. The owner gets the boat in the groove as it were, working the boat over waves without pounding with just the right amount of heel.

Time in the boat will go a long way. A lot more fun than wet sanding the hull back at the dock.

D'Arcy

IP: 64.229.229.139

5.
Eric
Member posted July 13, 2003 01:49 AM               
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Good stuff archarzel!

Very good advice has been given on sail trim already, so all I can add is to recommend a trip to your library and check out books on the topic of sail trim. You can also check the web. My only advice is don't get too deep into this stuff. Some material can be quite overwhelming. And also remember the Sandpiper is a very simple boat, as Ken said, it's "not a racing machine".
Having said that try this web site, http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/tips.htm
There's alot there to keep you going!

Good luck and congrats on a great sail!

Eric

IP: 130.63.74.220

6.
elmet3
unregistered posted July 20, 2003 05:26 PM              
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I was intrigued that you, too, found the Sanpiper does not point well into the wind. I read the responses. While the advice is all well and accurate, it all relates to making the boat behave as well as possible. None of the responders indicated it would make the boat point well. I have gone through all of the recommended adjustments, and I still find the Sandpiper does not point into the wind well. More accurately, if I trim things for one wind condition it seems to do fine (except for light airs, I can never point well into the wind in light airs) but if wind conditions change even moderately, I again have trouble. Apparently, the Sandpiper is very sensitive and not very robust in its behavior under varied conditions. And I am not trying to race, just beat upwind!
Does anybody else feel that the Sandpiper takes constant attention to point well into the wind?

IP: 205.188.209.139

7.
SuperPiper
unregistered posted July 21, 2003 05:54 AM              
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I love my 'piper!

But, she does not point well. . .

Last fall I tested moving the genoa tracks to the cabin top to improve the pointing abilities of my boat. I am convinced that it helped but the numbers were still dismal.

My latest theory involves the amount of mast rake. However, increasing the mast rake would induce more weather helm.

Perhaps the problem is that I am still hoisting 30year old sails?

IP: 204.92.62.67

8.
elmet3
unregistered posted July 21, 2003 09:44 PM              
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I raked the mast as far back as possible using the existing turnbuckles. I actually did it to reduce lee helm. It was only an inch or two extension of the forstay. It did slightly improve (reduce) the lee helm. I can't say for certain that it improved the ability to point, I wasn't thinking of that at the time, but I am sure it did not make it worse.

I, too, am sailing with 30 year old sails. Let me know if you decide to get new sails and how they affect performance.

IP: 152.163.253.101

9.
Darcy
Member posted July 22, 2003 11:38 AM               
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Sail design has come a long way in 30 years. I came back to racing Sharks after 30 years and its amazing how different the sails are with respect to shape, draft and cut. The shark is not a good light weather boat either but they move much better than they used to.

If you were really keen to get every last bit of performance out of your boat you should probably consider some new sails (or even some used 5 to 10 year old ones). Your old sails are probably fully blown out of shape.

To keep a small boat moving well does require constant attention. (That's why small boat sailors are usually better sailors.) They lose momentum quickly and are far more sensitive than a bigger boat.

I suspect that the Sandpiper is a good heavy weather boat based on its' English Channel roots. That means you have to be very attentive in the light stuff.

When the weather is light: Don't sweat it. Bear off and let the boat move a little. Keep focussed and watch for the signs (shifting direction and speed). Stear carefully and move softly. We're not sailing Americas cup boats here (Thank God!)

I've sailed thousands of miles at approximately 3 miles an hour. It's a very pleasant way to spend some time.

D'Arcy

IP: 64.229.227.122

10.
Canadian Sailor
unregistered posted July 22, 2003 11:52 AM              
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Don't trust this advice too much, as the experience happened a couple of years ago, so I'm not entirely sure of it, and it was also on a Hunter 140, so there's some difference between it and a Superpiper...

In the Hunter, my instructor put the jib sheets inside the shrouds to provide better pointing. And also flattening the jib should provide for better pointing (so moving the... thingys that the jib sheets go through farther back (as in the Lasers) should improve pointing.

That is my say on these things.

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Canadian Sailor
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you
criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

IP: 213.228.47.159

11.
CL Staff
Administrator posted July 25, 2003 12:20 PM               
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Hello,

If you really want your S565 to point upwind you could try to find the one S565 that was built with a keel (very similar, 11% different, to a Shark). As well you could cut your cabin trunk down to reduce windage.

Just on a side note, a sail on a reallllllly light wind day 0 - 1.5 knts should be BAGGY REALLY BAGGY!!! Most people think tight.. but no... BAGGY! Keep your weight on the leeward side to allow gravity to shape the sails, gentle movements, try not to "barndoor" the rudder (turn it 90 deg. from the centreline)If you have an engine reverse so you can remove any weeds from the foils.

Of course you could always invite the CL Staff for a sail and we could share ideas! Honest.

Cheers,

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Cody
Sailing Advisor/Sales manager/Web Development
CL SAILBOATS
codyc@clsailboats.com