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  Thetford MSD Head intallation

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Author Topic:   Thetford MSD Head intallation
Ken
Member
posted January 09, 2004 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken   Click Here to Email Ken     
Some of you may have thought about replacing the old original Sandpiper head with a more modern MSD (Marine Sanitation Device) Here's how I retrofitted a new unit from Thetford.

Here are some pictures of the completed installation in ShortWave.
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b343ed1005d8

I used a power jigsaw to carve out the fiberglass to accommodate the Thetford MSD portapotty. There are two models...only the smaller 10 Litre one will fit.
http://www.c-mesales.com/index.html?target=p_445.html&lang=en-us

The hardest part was carving out the excess foam inside the cavity. I replaced the pump out hose and vent hose as well. The vent hose is reinforced clear plastic and the pump out hose is smooth white stuff...especially made to be odour impermeable for holding tank installations.
http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/sanitation.htm

The vent is on the side of the hull and I installed a new metal pump out deck fitting beside the old plastic one on deck. All joints are double clamped with all stainless gear clamps.

The job took a whole weekend one spring. The edges of the fiberglass cutouts are lined with split foam tubing that's available for insulating copper water pipes. There'a a slot in the front for the flush handle and as you can see it from the pictures it was trimmed in teak.

The bottom bracket securing the removable body of the head is screwed to a 1-3/4 inch pressure-treated plank....about 8 X 12 The plank was epoxied to the hull.

I hook up the hoses to the holding tank to the barbs, then fit the lower tank to the mating plastic clips on the plank. Then the rest of the head assembly is lowered on to the tank and the locking slide on the head's backside secured.

The foam gasket around the perimeter of the hole that you have cut prevents pinching when using the head (if you know what I mean :-p )

It's fun to sit on the can with your head sticking out the fore hatch while looking around innocently in an anchorage....no one will ever know what you're up to, just don't try this at Ontario Place Marina !

Use only easy dissolving toilet paper available from the camping section in Canadian Tire! A roll fits neatly inside a large plastic peanut butter container....keeps it dry. We keep a pump container of that hand washing alcohol gel stuff to sanitize our hands when there's no soap & water available......

------------------
"Never be afraid to try something new: Professionals built the Titanic
And amateurs built the Ark."

[This message has been edited by Ken (edited January 09, 2004).]

SuperPiper
Member
posted January 11, 2004 06:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SuperPiper     
I never considered a vent line. What is the detail through the deck (or hull) for your installation?


whited
unregistered
posted January 11, 2004 10:44 AM           
I wonder if this setup can be modified to allow pumping out through a thru hull fitting.


Eric
Member
posted January 13, 2004 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eric   Click Here to Email Eric     
This head has the capability of being a portapotti,(illegal in Canada) or being a pump out. Not certain about the through hull. Could be a tricky install.
I'm not sure why Ken elected to install a new deck fitting. Perhaps it was an alignment issue between hoses. The original hose goes through the bulkhead and up through the anchor locker to the deck.
Also note, that in Ken's picture, the deck fitting is installed through a wood core. This wood core goes forward to the bow. To the left of the pic(out of view) is the forward mooring cleat, fastened through the core as well. Be sure, as I'm sure Ken did, to seal with epoxy before installing or bedding into wood core. West System has a great tutorial on this procedure.

This is a great update mod, that I would like to do to my Sandpiper. To take it a step further, I'd like to add some sort of privacy curtain to slide across when using the head. Thanks for sharing Ken.

Eric

[This message has been edited by Eric (edited January 13, 2004).]

whited
unregistered
posted January 13, 2004 06:14 PM           
Wonder how difficult it would be to convert a Sandpiper with pump out to following
with through hull discharge
*** http://ca.binnacle.com/online/product.asp?dept%5Fid=2070&pf%5Fid=24089 ***


Ken
Member
posted January 16, 2004 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken   Click Here to Email Ken     
My Sandpiper head installation required another pumpout fitting because the threads in the original plastic fitting didn't match the cam lock spigot at our club pumpout facility. I took the opportunity to replace it with a metal one, and due to the perceived difficulty in removing the old hose (partially foamed in) and fishing it out.
The vent line exits through the starboard side of the hull liner and hull via a 90 degree elbow fitting. Note...all fittings are double clamped. Note also that the hole in the liner is large enough to allow clearance for the hose, clamps and fingers to do the job.
In winter I remove the hoses from the head's holding tank outlet. It's impossible to turn the dual outlet fitting 45 degrees and lock it into the tank's outlet with hoses still attached. The vent line is terminated in a small plated metallic vent scoop with insect screen, the same kind used to ventilate sailboat water and fuel tanks. The vent scoop faces down.

Our privacy screen was "Everyone out of the boat, I need the head!!!"

Installing a MSD (Marine Sanitation Device) with any thru hull discharge capability at all may be illegal in the maritimes, and is certainly illegal anywhere on the inland waterways of Canada.

It's also illegal to have a portapottie installed in your boat without a permanently installed pumpout system. The logic here is that there's a good chance that, when the tank is full, many people might be tempted to just pour it out when no one's around.

By the way, a MSD is any container used to hold human waste on a boat. A bucket on a 12 ft fishing skiff can be used as a MSD. It's perfectly legal (but pretty gauche) to eliminate waste while swimming, or to pee over the side (if you don;t get charged for indecent exposure) but it's illigal to dump a bucket of urine over the side in inland waters or inshore areas of Canadian or US seas. That's defined as overboard discharge of a MSD.

A great resource on this odious subject is a website run by Peggy Hall, "The Headmistress"
http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/menu.tpl?fno=31

She's written a book too. It has a prominent place in our library in Silverheels III
http://shop.catalinaowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=20&group=327


SuperPiper
Member
posted January 16, 2004 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SuperPiper     
Ken:

Living aboard has twisted your sense of entertainment and your taste in personal reading materials.

It is time to get on the hard (whiskey).

Have you been to the boat show?

BTW, what was the distance between the hull and the liner at the point where you installed the vent line?

whited
unregistered
posted January 16, 2004 11:35 AM           
In Canada's coastal waters, through hull discharge is still legal.
Every single sailboat in this area with a head pumps out directly to the ocean. I'm not sure where a person could find a 'pump-out station' if you wanted one...maybe at Baddeck on the Bras d'Or Lakes in Cape Breton. I prpbably should be asking this question at the local marine supply stores
who sell the direct discharge heads.


Ken
Member
posted January 21, 2004 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken   Click Here to Email Ken     
Just found this Transport Canada resource. it answers some questions about overboard discharge and vented loops.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/tp/tp1332/appendixC.htm


whited
unregistered
posted January 21, 2004 09:10 PM           
thanks Ken..that option 4 seems to be the local favourite.
On the Mirage 33 I crew on, the line to the holding tank (after the Y valve)is cut and capped. The holding tank is still there and about 20% filled with God knows what.


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