As you can guess, a Sandpiper does not sail like an I-14. But, I am convinced that your experience could most likely tune you to the front of the fleet.

My experience with letting casual sailors take the tiller on #123 is that they inevitably sail with excessive weather helm. It is important to balance the main with the tiller. Even with the helm at midships, the tiller can be heavy as the rudder shares the lateral load from the keel. I am in the habit of glancing back at the tiller to check that I have it midship. I have considered:
- installing a pointer on the bottom of the tiller with a quadrant posted on the lazarette cover to indicate rudder attitude; or,
- engineering some kind of detente so that the rudder would "click home" when parallel to the keel.

Since I relocated the main sheet from the transom to the bridge deck, I have taken to trimming the main using the traveller rather than the main sheet. An I-14 sailor would appreciate this difference.

The 'Piper gets up to hull speed quickly and seems to forgive the fickle & gusty conditions found on a narrow lake surrounded by highlands. In an approaching gust, I bear off to allow for that frontal back-draft and then round up and hang on for the ride.

I wish the Sandpiper had hiking straps.

Darcy, I don't know how a Sandpiper would compare to a Shark. The 'Piper is definitely prettier!

Good Luck! . . . and keep us posted.

posted February 12, 2002 12:32 AM            

Thanks for your experiences on sailing the Sandpiper. Since I first posted my question, I've had a chance to talk to a few of the veteran Shark sailors who I have raced with. Their opinions are very interesting regarding the sailing performance of small keel boats like the S565. In theory, the Shark is a faster boat with its longer waterline length. Using the PHRF rating rule it is also supposedly faster. In reality though, boats like the Sandpiper often beat Sharks; especially in typical Southern Ontario conditions (light & shifty). When the wind is light and shifty a Sandpiper tacks faster and accelerates up to its maximum hull speed rapidly. A larger keel boat takes longer so their skippers often shy away from extra tacks in order to play a wind shift. Your comments on how the Sandpiper accelerates would seem to concur; the smaller lighter boat is faster. If the two boats were racing on a long reach in medium to heavy air then I think the Shark would be faster, but not by much. For example, if you raced a Shark and a Sandpiper on a beam reach from our cottage to the sandy bay on the other side of the lake (almost 3 miles away), according to the rating rule the Shark would win by about 90 seconds. (Unfortunately, the Shark would also run aground in the sandy bay as with its keel it draws 3 feet. The Sandpiper with its raised centreboard could go right up to the beach.) That would make the S565 a perfect boat for what we intend to use it for.

Your traveller arrangement should work well. Again, in our typical light summer breezes you can pull the traveller right up past the centre line of the boat when going upwind. This would move the main sail almost to the centre but not put too much downward tension on the boom causing the sail to flatten and roach to curl. By maintaining a full sail shape you will have a lot more power in lighter conditions. These small keel boats are great because they handle more like a dinghy than a keel boat. All the Shark sailors would love to have hiking straps as well but unfortunately class rules do not allow it. They all use the traveller which is in the centre of the cockpit to hook their toes under and hike out. The down side of this arrangement is when you are using the cockpit for casual relaxed cruising, the main sheet sometimes gets in the way. As I'm intending to cruise this boat more than race, I think I would keep the stern mainsheet system to keep the cockpit clear but who knows what time sailing will do.

I also used to sail Finns and Lasers in my youth. On those boats by really cranking the boom vang down you could set or fix the downward pressure on the boom and use the main sheet for only letting the sail in and out making it much less strenuous on your arms as you were not pulling the boom down, only in. The I-14s used to do this as well. It worked so well that they removed their travellers as they never used them. If you do use this kind of setup make sure that all the parts of the boom vang and surrounding deck areas are strong enough to take the increased force in that area.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Regards, D'Arcy

Your comments about the proper setup of the vang has started me thinking. I am realizing that I have never really appreciated the true function or how to properly set the vang. Thanks for the thoughts. Perhaps some of the other forum users can fill in some experiences re: the vang.

I have a question for you. I believe that the wide sheeting angle of the Sandpiper limits its pointing ability. I have considered moving the jib sheet track inboard but there is only 1" or 2" of side deck available. I am curious about the operation of a barber hauler. I have also considered a 2-part jib sheet with one end fixed to the genoa track and the other leading across the cabin top. Surely you have some comment or experience about this type of rig.

Here is a note about the sailing ability of the Sandpiper. At the dock, I can stand on the transom and not get it closer than a couple of inches above the water. However, as soon as the boat starts to sail, the transom drags about 2" below the water level. I typically move the crew weight as far forward as possible in an attempt to keep the transom out of the lake. Dingy sailors know to do this in light air conditions. A friend's handheld GPS showed a 1.xx knot increase in speed by keeping the transom dry.

Whadda ya think?

posted March 08, 2002 10:34 PM            

Good sailing, D'Arcy

posted March 19, 2002 01:25 PM            

Cheers....Ken

I am always looking for ideas on worthwhile upgrades. Could you list some of the features that you have added or deleted on your 'Piper? Perhaps you could indicate which ones enhanced performance and which were cosmetic or for cruising comfort.

What is the colour of Shortwave's hull? I think I saw her a few years ago swinging from a mooring.

My daughter and I attended Uncle Al's tactics night a few weeks ago at the TS&CC. It is a great spot & nearly invisible.

Ken, May 4 is coming soon. Boy, you really take a long season.

posted March 20, 2002 10:10 AM            

On dry land, (as on a trailer) block up the centreboard in the fully retracted position from under the hull. Remove all the stainless screws holding the fiberglass cover onto the centreboard trunk top.
Inside there are 4 large pop rivets holding the metal screw plate retainer down. Drill these out. Using the square wrench provided for the purpose, turn the square nut counterclockwise, raising it and the screw out of the lead keel assembly. Raise it as far as possible and grease the jackscrew with waterproof yacht winch grease (get this in in the sailboat chandlery).

Grease the nut at the bottom, and screw it all home again. I took the opportunity to replace the ball bearing race. You might not have to. The replacement bearing is readily available from C&L Boatshop.

If the screw seems to bind too much when first raising it, either the grease is really dry, (Squirt oil down the shaft) or the screw has been bent from running the boat aground. (hopefully NOT!)

I would bet that the screw on your boat is OK...it is a naval bronze jackscrew and very strong....but.....the shape of the keel lends itself to damage if sailed into a rocky shoal at high speed.

My keel became very difficult to lower in 1999 so I lubricated it in May 2000.
It will be the second lube since buying the boat in 1988...pretty good actually!!!

Thank-you so much for explaining the barberhauler to us. Your explaination is the best I've heard.

You made mention of using a ring and line to pull the jib inboard (sideways). I was playing around with sail-shape one day on my CL 16 and noticed that if I use the lazy jibsheet to put a bit of tension on the sail, the jib will move a bit more inboard. Thus what I do is get the jibsheets working in tandem and BINGO I have a barberhauler working without knowing it.

Thanks again for putting us on an even keel.

posted March 23, 2002 03:59 AM            

I also have a question for Sanpiper sailors. I've been searching the net for used Sanpipers and have found some of them use jib furlers. A jib furler is a great way to get the sail out of the way in a hurry without having to go forward. I've also noticed that some of the bigger cruising boats use them to reduce sail area of a single large genoa rather than changing sails. It would be a fast way to depower if the wind picks up (especially if you have non sailing guests on board who don't particularly like burying the rail). Any comments?

I've been crewing on a Shark for a few years now and you might be interested to know that although the class rules permit jib furlers, you are not allowed to reduce sail during a race; the jib must be either fully rolled up or completely out.

Thanks for your comments and observations.
I will put them to use this upcoming season.

As far as a jib furler goes, I think they are a great invention. I like not only the convienence but the safety feature as well. Nobody has to go up onto the deck in adverse conditions. They only problem with the furling system though is that on most models, there has to be constant tension on the furling line. By this I mean that you cannot just haul out the jib and leave the furling line free. In my experience that only invites trouble as the furing line will over-ride itself on the furling drum. Then you have a problem. You're are stuck with whatever sail is out there in the wind until you run up to the pulpit and re-thread your lines. Speaking from experience, it's a wet, cold, and frustrating job when you're beating into 5 foot swells and doing a balancing act in the pulpit at the same time.

The other thing I like about a furling system is that you can easily install "the tacker" which will allow you to fly a symmetrical spinnaker like an assymetrical spinnaker.

Though I've never owned a Sandpiper, I have great respect for that class. I have seen them handle the heavy air (65km) with ease.

posted March 23, 2002 09:08 PM            

Ken's keel screw lubrication tutorial is excellent advice. I performed this task last season and it made the world of difference in the operation of the keel!

Come on spring!!!!!!!!!

posted March 26, 2002 08:44 AM            

Thanks for posting your centreboard maintenance article. I'll keep it in my ever growing Sandpiper file. Very useful information.

I've never sailed a keel / centreboard boat before but does anyone adjust the centreboard while sailing? If I was sailing a Laser or similar boat, I would have the board up while on the reaches and running. I would also have it up when jibing in strong winds. This would allow the boat to side slip if I overcompensated in the turn. If you leave the board down in the heavey stuff there is a tendency for the boat to trip over the board and (perish the thought!) sometimes capsize. Some Lazer sailors even pull the board up slightly while going upwind in heavy weather. Apparently this allows them to keep the boat flat easier and therefore more efficiently moving upwind.

Using the centreboard while sailing would also help balance the helm of the boat, even while cruising (or "performance cruising" as we like say). What I'm not sure about in a Sandpiper is since the centreboard is also your keel would sailing with the board up prevent the boat from righting itself if you were knocked down? Maybe the board is better left down. Or, is there still enough righting moment with the board up?
Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated.

Everyones' postings or comments have been terrific. I am gaining a much better understanding of the Sandpiper now.

D'Arcy

Though I have not been fortunate enough to set foot aboard a Sandpiper yet, I am quite experienced racing the San Juan 21.
We have toyed with the idea of adjusting centreboard positions but we came to the conclusion that it's just not worth the hassle. It's too time consuming and we may not remember what position the keel is in when chaos develops. However we do raise the keel to let weeds slide off the keel.
As for your question about the righting moment. I think the keel of the SJ 21 is around 500 lbs and we've been in high winds with it (70 km). We have been overpowered but we have never been knocked-down. Personally I am very impressed with that particular design. But my point is, even if something were to happen with the board "up" we'd be screwed. Let's assume that we get knocked down with the 500 lb keel is nicely tucked inside the boat. The keel would be of no use to us and may even induce the dreaded 'turtle' position.
You also mentioned about the boat tripping over the keel. The simply solution to this problem is to shorten sail. In any situation "keep the board down" it was designed to help you not hinder you.

My suggestion to you is to go to your local Chapters or Indigo store and purchase any book written by "John Vigor'. He really knows his stuff and I'm sure that he can answer a lot of your questions. He's already answered a lot of mine.

I hope this helps,

Robert
Celtic Kiss #2120

Unfortunately the debate gets a bit stupid with personal attacks but if you muddle through the mud-slinging, some interesting points are made.
http://trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/index.cgi?read=175287

Robert
Celtic Kiss #2120

Our cottage lake is long and narrow. So on a sortie, one leg will be a beat and the other will be a reach or run. On the run, I always raise the keel. Sometimes, if the run is on the way home, I have to remember to get the keel back down or I won't have steerage for the docking maneuvres. There have been some embarrassing episodes.

With the keel up, there is an interesting phenomenon. The helm goes to lee. That is because the boat is sailing in a direction different from the way that she is pointing. I have never raced my 'piper, but this ability to point in a different direction than the hull's true track could prove to be a great advantage on a downwind leg: optimum wind angle, no gybing and staying on the rhumbline.

The 'piper has keelsons (little ribs on the outside of the bilges). I use them to help centre the boat on its trailer. Otherwise, I suspect that the boat could perform better without them. Do they exist on later hulls? Cody, what would you charge to remove them and refinish the hull?

The 'piper seems to always recover from a knockdown. The rudder loses its bite and the boat rounds up into the wind just as the leeward rail is becoming awash. Of course, the keel tends to be full down on a windward leg. I have no worries about her seaworthiness with the keel retracted.

I have wondered what could be done to power the lead screw and to provide a 'turns' indicator. But, if I had the money, I would probably not own a Sandpiper.

You're quite welcome for the link. In fact it was the "trailer sailor" site that directed me to this site. I've taken the liberty of posting a question at TS on your behalf. No doubt you'll get a lot of interesting (and hopefully informative responses).
http://trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/index.cgi?read=176114

posted April 06, 2002 11:06 PM            

There have been a couple of responses to your posting already. The comments are informative. I didn't realize that the original design of the Sandpiper was from Vanderstadt & McGruer. Many a dinghy sailor on the West Coast had good dealings with this company. They would deliver large keel boats out west on an old but beautifully maintained black Mack truck. They would then transport your dinghy back on the empty flatbed for a very modest price. It gave a fair number of sailors from B.C. the chance to race in the big Ontario regattas like CORK. Our Int. 14 came back to Ontario this way.

One of the replys (Ed) posted a picture of his Sandpiper. Just makes you want to go sailing; a 565 anchored in a shallow bay, blue sky, sun. Thanks for the lead on the Trailor Sailor forum.

I have another question for anyone with knowledge on cruising: My Brother is thinking of getting a reaching spinnaker or Geniker (half spinnaker half genoa) for his keel boat. He thinks it will be good for doing easy reaches in light weather. Not as difficult to handle as a spinnaker. Could be very useful when you have company on board who can't fly a traditonal chute. Any comments on how one of these sails would work on a Sandpiper? Has any body used one?

I don't forsee any problems flying a gennaker on a Sandiper.
My knowledge is limited to flying a spinnaker on a San Juan 21 and my CL 16. For the first few trial runs I sail the spinnaker by itself so I don't have anything else to worry about. Once I finish the downwind leg, down comes the chute and up go the main and jib. Sail back upwind and do the whole routine over. It's a great way to learn as you only have one sail to concentrate on.

posted April 08, 2002 04:05 PM            

------------------
"ShortWave"

posted April 14, 2002 09:45 PM            

I've seen a bridle sort of affair on bigger boats that holds the tack on the fore stay or furled jib. Your idea of using the bow pulpit seems more straight forward. I guess a larger boat in dealing with greater the loads of a huge sail might run the risk of damaging the pulpit. They would also need to get the tack of the chute proportionally higher.

Following another posting, I looked up the Sailfish on the web as it is supposed to be a close cousin to the Sandpiper manufactured in England. It is indeed quite similar. Good section that shows how the centre board works. The cabin top seems higher and apparently the cockpit is not self bailing. Does the Sandpiper have a self bailing cockpit?

Thabks to some very keen friends, I actually got out sailing Easter Sunday! A marvellous day. Payment for this privilage was sanding and painting antifouling today. Small price to pay. Spring is in the air and a young mans fancy turns to thoughts of sailing.

Again thank you for the pointers.