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Author
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Topic: Impressions on sailing a Sandpiper
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Darcy Member
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posted June 25, 2004 11:39 PM
Well, we've had Shortwave out sailing for two weekends now so I thought I'd give you my first impressions. Feel free to make any comments.The first weekend had very light winds. I was struck by how easily the boat moved through the water. It takes a while to get it up to speed but we found it glides through the shifts beautifully. This is mainly because the sails can be adjusted effortlessly. The small jib tacks quickly in a shift so you don't stall out. The windex is a valuable tool on these shifty northern lakes keeping you informed of the ever changing wind direction. Two people are very comfortable sitting to leeward. To do the same thing in a Laser I would have to sit on the deck in front of the cockpit to leeward: Not very comfortable at all. Last weekend gave us the other extreme: It was blowing stink! We put a reef in the main before heading out. The slab reefing works very well. Pushed off with main only at first then unfurled the jib. Going with the reef was the right decision. We reached off, hull boiling through the water. A large stern wave seemed to indicate we were going pretty much at hull speed. A bit scary at first as we wondered if the mast would stay up (First time jitters.) The weather was sunny and warm with the cockpit staying dry. Lake Rosseau isn't much of a sailors lake. Even the powerboaters stay in when it's windy. We had the lake to ourselves. Being at the top of the lake, there was little wave action until we got a few miles downwind. Comming home was a long beat on port then a short starboard tack to the other shore. The boat is interesting to steer in heavy weather. You really have to push or pull the tiller to get a response: It feels like a much larger boat with a very long keel. We used the main to control our power, letting it out to keep level in the gusts. I'm not used to a rear sheeting main but as I adjusted my technique found it easy to control with ample purchase in the sheeting. We decided to go up the narrow channel to our cottage so we could practice our tacking. Initially, I tended to overstear on tacks. First the boat didn't seem to be responding so I would push the tiller a bit harder. Then as we passed through head to wind I found I had the tiller over too much and it was very hard to pull it back. It will take a bit of getting used to. After sailing I realized the pivot bolt on the rudder was a bit loose. I think with the bolt tighter there is less play in the rudder assembly which should help steering control some. Shortwave doesn't have jib winches so in the heavy stuff we sometimes had to pinch into the wind to get the jib in tight. (My oversteering didn't help much either.) We don't intend to add winches feeling that under all but the most extreme conditions they are not really needed. We may use ratchet blocks on the fairleads (An old Int14 trick.) We also found it a bit difficult to release the jib sheet in the gusts: You really have to yank the sheet up high to release it from the cleat. I may cant the cleats slightly to help improve the releasing. Usually, I would sail right into the dock but opted to take the easy way by lowering the sail and gingerly motoring up to the dock. (Don't want to spoil that newly polished hull.) Considering the wind we were in, the boat is really impressive. With the exception of one wave (There's always one) we kept dry. I suppose we could have sat up on the rail to hike a bit but there seemed to be no need to. As an old racer, I may put on an extending tiller extension. Not so much for hiking but to allow me to stand up on the rail to see the shifts (or rocks while motoring). I can't sail Shortwave this weekend and I'm sure I'll be going through sailing withdrawal on Saturday. D'Arcy
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Ken Member
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posted June 29, 2004 08:14 AM
Nice sailing description D'Arcy. Please stop! We've only sailed Silverheels III twice. It's true that the small boats get out more often isn't it? We always backwinded the jib when tacking, it helped to bring the bow around through the wind more smartly with less rudder angle. (which stalls out at high incident angles anyway) Lynn and I always wore leather palmed sailing gloves in frisky weather...makes hauling in the jib sheets easier on the hands. Ratchet blocks on the jibsheets would be a great idea. We didn't realease the jib in gusts...since it is a small working sail; but rather let out the large mainsail...letting it luff during high wind gusts.[This message has been edited by Ken (edited June 29, 2004).]
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Eric Member
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posted June 30, 2004 05:34 AM
Great story D'Arcy! One thing I find very helpful is a tiller extension. When it's blowing hard, I can operate the tiller with my forward hand, and grasp the mainsheet with my aft hand. I find it much easier and comfortable this way. I have an RWO model, simple and not expensive.

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Hyprstitch Member
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posted June 30, 2004 07:53 AM
Hello Eric. I have the same extension. Your right, there are times it be almost impossible to sail with out one. Also helps when you need to reach into the cabin when sailing solo. Sid
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Darcy Member
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posted June 30, 2004 08:11 AM
Shortwave has a Laser extension that works well in most cases. I like to get way forward (standing on the side deck at times) so I can see the wind shifts so I may switch to an adjustable length extension. It's an old Scandinavian technique used when working your way up the shifty fjords.I used to be good at the rear sheeting system when I sailed Enterprises. I'll be practising all weekend so I'm sure I'll have it worked out by Monday. D'Arcy
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elmet3 Member
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posted June 30, 2004 01:04 PM
I may be way conservative, but I never hike out or even lean far to windward. If the boat heals more than about 15 degrees I ease the sails or head up a bit. I was out in about 20 knots yesterday and, with two of us seated to windward side, the boat was nearly flat. It's not that I object to healing, but the telltales are telling me the boat likes to be upright. When I have healed the boat more, the telltales on the leeward side of the main are often separating, so I ease the main, the boat stands up, and I don't think I am loosing speed as the mainsail is more efficient this way. Don't know for sure as I have no way to judge speed that closely. Anyway, the boat is easy to handle and continues to respond very well when sailed in this manner. Darcy, I have sailed Norwegian fjords, but never saw anybody sail that way!! Might be a fine way to sail - I usually try to sit as far forward as possible.
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whited unregistered
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posted June 30, 2004 02:04 PM
D'Arcy...did you keep the mast at the same rake as Ken? The pictures he posted may have been taken with a 'wide angle' lens but the rake seemed pronounced. I'm going to try what is recommended in the rigging manual and see how that works.
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Darcy Member
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posted June 30, 2004 06:30 PM
Ken had the mast raked quite far back and I have left it that way. He felt the boat had too much leeward helm originally but tilting the mast back corrected it. The helm seems very well balanced at this point with just a bit of weather helm which is good. The last Scandinavian I saw on the rail using the tiller extension was a very attractive blonde Swedish woman (which is probably why the technique is so clear in my mind). She was steering a 35 foot boat through a narrow channel near Helsinki. Her position on the rail (sitting, sometimes standing) gave her a good view of rocks or shallows ahead. As a racer, I like being up on the rail. But you're absolutely right elmet, you really don't have to in a Sandpiper. It's a very comfortable boat to sail sitting in the cockpit too. D'Arcy
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Darcy Member
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posted July 05, 2004 11:00 AM
Just to clarify the standing technique: You don't stand all the time on the rail but your tiller extension should be long enough to allow you to stand briefly to look ahead for wind patterns, rocks, etc.If I could telescope my extension just a few more inches on Shortwave I could easily stand up. (I could even step into the cabin to get a winch handle.) The first sailor I saw standing on the rail was Paul Elvstrom (Danish) in a Soling regatta. He would pick out wind patterns off of Centre Island and work his way out of the whole fleet. Beautiful to watch. D'Arcy
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2short S565 Member
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posted July 05, 2004 11:33 AM
I sometimes like to stand in the cockpit while sailing. I found the tiller was just a couple of inches too low to reach. I have a tiller extension but when standing in the cockpit just ahead of the tiller the extension is awkward. So I modified my tiller. Here is a pic; In normal sailing position the end of the tiller is pointed up slightly so it is comfortable to reach when standing. When at the slip I hinge it all the way back so it rests on the tiller tamer. Makes the cockpit much roomier. In this pic it is hinged up in between those two positions. There is an adjustable stop to set the lowered position.You can see the socket for my removable tiller extension. I rarely use that now. This hinge arrangement has very very little play in it after a year of hard sailing. I dont even normally notice it because it's much less than the play in my brand new set of Gudgeon/pintels. I would have prefered locating the hinge just ahead of the main sheet track, but I didn't know what to do with the blade downhaul bungee and the tiller tamer. Fred [This message has been edited by 2short S565 (edited July 05, 2004).] [This message has been edited by 2short S565 (edited July 05, 2004).]
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Eric Member
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posted July 05, 2004 12:53 PM
Fred your tiller looks to be well constructed! Are you using Cetol Gloss as the final coat? Your wood has a great shine, like mine !! A couple of other things I noticed, your cleats are in a different location than mine. Also your cockpit drains are where they should be IMHO. Mine are about 6" forward. There are always little puddles in the aft corners of my cockpit. Looks like a mold modification CL made during production. Good improvement! Eric
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whited unregistered
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posted July 05, 2004 02:09 PM
My floor cockpit drain is center far back. The two drains in the cockpit seating area are back corners just behind lazarette cover. Trouble is, debris (leaves etc) can clog them...causing water to enter lazarette area. The PO of my boat didn't have it covered, so I had to remove a fair amount of water. I hope it didn't affect the fibreglass although I just found a half dozen 'pimples' on the underwater part of the hull. Some suveryors say this is because builders moved around getting cheapest resin vs best resin for boat while trying to keep costs in line.
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2short S565 Member
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posted July 05, 2004 04:33 PM
quote: Originally posted by Eric: Fred your tiller looks to be well constructed! Are you using Cetol Gloss as the final coat? Your wood has a great shine, like mine !! A couple of other things I noticed, your cleats are in a different location than mine. Also your cockpit drains are where they should be IMHO. Mine are about 6" forward. There are always little puddles in the aft corners of my cockpit. Looks like a mold modification CL made during production. Good improvement! Eric
My hull number is 1192. Drains on mine seem to work OK fine. THe seats always drain completley but when water is in cockpit I have to stand as far back as I can to get it to completely drain the last little bit. I keep the drains clean using a piece of vinyl covered cable (Looks like a piece of close line with metal ends on it. Might have been part of a bike lock cable at one time). I use "Cetol Marine" on all my wood. Easy to touch up each year and looks bright and shiny as you mentioned.
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whited unregistered
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posted July 05, 2004 10:08 PM
What is your sail # Fred? Is that 1192 the number on the metal plate in the cockpit or the number formed in the transom? example my 86 Piper sail # 1162 cockpit plate # 1162 hull serial # CLWxxxxxx586
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2short S565 Member
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posted July 05, 2004 10:41 PM
Thats the number on the metal plate in the cockpit. I assumed thats the hull number? I never checked against the embossed number on the outside of the transom.Fred
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whited unregistered
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posted July 06, 2004 10:06 AM
D'oh! Thought I had the most recent model in the group. :-) If you look at the embossed # on the transom you can tell the boat's model year by the last digit. Mine is an '86. Depending on how many 'Pipers were produced in the mid-eighties....you could be an '86 or '87.
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2short S565 Member
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posted July 08, 2004 09:08 PM
Guess I'm 1988. 
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whited unregistered
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posted July 08, 2004 09:39 PM
I see your stern cleats are mounted kitty corner at the stern. Mine are in-line with the gunnels
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