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Author
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Topic: Trailer brakes
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whited
unregistered
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posted March 21, 2004 03:29 PM
Does anyone have brakes on their Sandpiper trailer? Total load can be 2k here before brakes are required, although I see Chrysler recommends them if the load is 1k on certain vehicles including the Caravan.
If you were buying a new trailer, would you pony up the extra cash for peace of mind? I guess stainless steel disk brakes are the way to go if doing so.
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Eric
Member
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posted March 21, 2004 07:22 PM
 
No and yes!
I don't have brakes on my trailer. My trailer is oversized IMHO, which I don't mind. It's capacity is 3000-3500#'s. There is provision on my axle for brakes should I want to add them. I think the Sandpiper is on the threshold in terms of weight for tailer brakes. 
Brakes for boat trailers should be the surge type. For obvious reasons, electic brakes aren't used.
I've now got a new to me tow vehicle,(F150 pickup) so I'll see how braking is. The truck's brakes should be adequate. With my old van, I could definately tell I was working the brakes.
I don't think I'd want to tow too far with a Caravan. I've heard of tranny issues there. The GM Venture/Montana are a better choice for towing. I believe they are rated for 3500#. I have to assume that vehicle manufacturers size brakes according to their tow ratings, or reccomendations. Thus, my pickup's brakes should be larger than my old van's brakes.
I try to allow plenty of time and space for stopping, to prevent overheating the brakes.
Trailer brakes will definately save the tow vehicle brakes, and give better control in sudden stopping.
If I were buying new, I'd go for it. That's my nickels worth! Eric
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whited
unregistered
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posted March 21, 2004 08:45 PM
Thanks Eric..
Just thinking......do you worry that the springs may be too stiff and not give enough
to cushion your boats ride?
I'm guessing a 1500 or 1750 lb rated trailer
would be ideal.
BTW..how did you get a white hull? Thought I had read that all were blue the first few years.
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Eric
Member
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posted March 21, 2004 09:17 PM
I've never really given much thought as to whether the ride was too stiff. I've never looked behind and notice it bounce around much  I've got 13" C rated, 6 ply, bias tires on it. Rolls along quite nicely!Actually I just bought a whole new set of rubber this winter, including a spare!
The pic shows rusty wheels(old van too). Yuk! I resprayed the rims and hope to respray the trailer too this year.
I'd be inclined to go on the heavier side for trailer capacity. Once you add a motor, gear, cooler of brews etc, it'll be nice to know you've got capacity!
My boat is actually cream coloured! You're right though, alot seem to be the pale blue colour. I have also seen as many like mine! Eric
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Outaouais
unregistered
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posted March 22, 2004 12:08 AM
You guys are right about the Sandpiper being at the limit when it comes to brake-equiped trailers. When I purchased my Piper, I had to drive it down 500 km to get it home using my 91 Plymouth Acclaim (equiped with an anemic 100 hp, 4 cylinder.) When I tried to make a complete stop by pressing down hard on the brake pedal, overheating prevented the pads from grabing hold and I realy had to plan my moves in advance... The whole trip also cost me a new engine head on the car... I'd say if you're buying new and planing on trailering, trailer brakes aren't a bad investment.
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Eric
Member
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posted March 22, 2004 05:58 AM
Hi Outaouais, how are ya?!
You sound like a brave man towing with that Aclaim  My old Aerostar pulled it OK, with the 3.0 V6, but sometimes I felt her strain on hills or at the ramp!
But I completely understand why you did it! 
Where do you sail?
Cheers, Eric
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elmet3
unregistered
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posted March 22, 2004 09:12 AM
I pull with a Villager with V6. Boat and trailer are well within the stated capacity and I have never had any problem. Stops fine. I have never pulled long distances but it is so well behaved on the short haul that I wouldn't hesitate to go far.
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whited
unregistered
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posted March 22, 2004 09:51 AM
I sometimes still wonder if I'd be smarter to look at a 17' Siren. That boat weighs about 640 lbs plus trailer.
I'll closely compare the two in May. The long haul home should be a make or break adventure. :-) ( about 2000 km)
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Darcy
Member
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posted March 22, 2004 09:55 AM
I agree with everyone else. Your on the limit with a Sandpiper. I use a Sienna (Toyota) and you do have to keep your distance with the extra weight. But it works well.I'm a strong believer in large wheel trailers with ample tongue weight. A trailer with extra capacity set up properly rides very smoothly in this weight range. The comments about transmissions are bang on. I know of several sailing friends with Chrysler mini vans who have had problems. if I was doing a lot of distance I would have the optional towing package installed that provides extra cooling for the motor and transmission. D'Arcy
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Outaouais
unregistered
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posted March 22, 2004 10:44 AM
Hey Eric,I sail on the Ottawa river (Lac Deschênes portion.) My boat is moored at the Aylmer yacht club this year. How about you?
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Ken
Member
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posted March 22, 2004 01:58 PM
Whited.....after you look at just how teeny and cramped Sirens are you'll really appreciate a Sandpiper. Cheers....Ken
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Eric
Member
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posted March 22, 2004 07:56 PM
Update:This trailer topic is very popular now. There have been discussions on the Trailer Sailor site these last two days. One post states electric brakes are ok for FRESH water dips. SALT water not recommended for electric. Another chap wrote about a problem he had with his actuator acting up on a surge brake system, resulting in severe damage, while on the road. He's towing a J24! Many other good points and maintenace items have been posted as well. Outaouais, I'm in Barrie, Lake Simcoe! Don, listen to Ken! Eric
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whited
unregistered
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posted March 22, 2004 09:15 PM
I had a new Siren in 1984.
It wasn't too bad...as long as you stayed in the cockpit. Down below was only suitable for kids. It would do the trick daysailing in protected waters...no good for cruising.
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Eric
Member
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posted March 22, 2004 09:29 PM
Nothing wrong with a Siren! Many were sold! A well built, Ontario made boat!! For looks and the advantage of a bigger cabin, my choice would have to be a Sandpiper! Plus, I'm comfortable with the easy retractable keel. The Sandpiper's keel seems, a more robust system.Eric
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whited
unregistered
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posted March 22, 2004 11:31 PM
Two other options I'd enjoy on the 'Piper are the sliding hatch and opening front port.
Both missing on the Siren.
I would also expect the 'piper to be more stable when walking forward.
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Darcy
Member
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posted March 22, 2004 11:51 PM
After seeing your photos Eric I have one more comment on trailers. We replaced our extremely old and rusted trailer for our cottage outboard with a new one last year. The new trailers' cross members are bent to take the deep-v hull shape better. The boat rides a lot lower and is easier to see around while driving. It also corners much better than our old higher version.I think you could do the same with a sailboat. The downside to this arrangement is the wheelbase is wider. If you live in an older neighbourhood with narrow driveways like us it could be trickey. We only have 4 inches clearance on each side between our house and our neighbours' when we back in the trailer. The Siren might make a better true daysailor as it has a slightly longer cockpit. However, the seats are very low. It's more "dinghy" like. Although shorter I prefer sitting in a Sandpiper cockpit. I know several people who sail Sirens in shallow areas. They prefer the pivoting centreboard as it is easier to move up and down rapidly to accomodate for changing depths. They're also a bit quicker (Again, more dinghy like). Having sailed many miles in dinghies, I'm looking forward to sailing in a little more comfort at 3 to 4 miles an hour. Is this a case where sometimes the journey is more important than the destination? D'Arcy
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SuperPiper
Member
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posted March 23, 2004 06:02 AM
I have remounted my axle over the leaf springs rather than the standard under the leaf springs. The hardware works in either configuration. There is still lots of compression room between the axle and the hull. This probably saved 3" in height and in depth of water required for a launch.Siren vs 'Piper! Put an end to this discussion NOW or I am leaving.
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whited
unregistered
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posted March 23, 2004 09:48 AM
I also live in a central part of the city. My lot is 40'wide by 100' deep and my driveway is 10' wide.
In my case the Siren advantages are mostly due to my tow vehicle...a 1995 Plymouth Voyager (low mileage)with the 3.0 V6 and 3 speed auto transmission.
For the first couple of years I will be towing everytime I use the boat, and since the harbour is dirty, I need to travel about 30-40 km for pristine saltwater and about the same for large freshwater lakes.
I would also tow about 600km round trip twice a year for a Bras d'Or Lakes treat.
Once I get sailing, I have no doubt that the 'Piper is much superior. What to do...
I'd prefer not to buy a new tow vehicle at this time, although I can see it coming.
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Darcy
Member
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posted March 23, 2004 11:21 AM
Our property is 25 feet wide with an 8 foot wide driveway. We make use of a very good 3rd wheel to manouver the last half by hand.We've stored a Shark there at times. It looks quite impressive with the bow peeking out between the houses. Our neighbours all love it. They say the sight of our boat helps get them through the winter, reminding them of approaching spring. D'Arcy
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Ken
Member
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posted March 23, 2004 12:41 PM
When installing my heavier axle, bearings and larger 15 inch rims I mounted the axle over the leaf springs. There's still plenty of spring travel and clearance between the hull and steel wheel fenders. The new trailer tongue was made 5 ft longer as well.
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Ken
Member
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posted March 23, 2004 12:59 PM
Lynn and I regularly spent lazy afternoons lounging with extra cushions on the Sandpiper's foredeck ahead of the mast. We're both 6+ ft and there was plenty of "cozy space" up there and lots of reserve buoyancy at the bow for the extra 390-odd lb load. You get a good sense of security when venturing forward while underway with the steel pulpit, lifelines and teak handgrips on the coachroof. See the picture "Reefing the Main" in the link.
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b34e4665e41f ------------------
"Never be afraid to try something new: Professionals built the Titanic
And amateurs built the Ark."
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Ken
Member
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posted March 23, 2004 01:03 PM
Tried to attach a picture of the Sandpiper foredeck. Didn't work![This message has been edited by Ken (edited March 23, 2004).]
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