Congrats on the new boat. I'm sure you will have a lot of fun with it. As for your question, I would surmise that your hull is adequately supported. Did the previous owner use the same trailer?

posted May 01, 2002 10:21 AM         

There does'nt seem to be any deformations or waves on the hull. My concern comes from what I read and heard about the importance of having the weight of the boat supported by the keel rather than the hull.

But again my hull looks ok and all this time on those rollers...

Another thought on hull support on a trailer. A keel boat (Ie; Beneteau 411, C&C 32 etc) should rest on it's keel because it contains so much lead ballast. If this lead ballast was left unsupported, the weight of it would rip the keel from the hull. Gravity works Thus designers allow for the ballasted keel to support the hull.
A trailerable sailboat usually has a pivoting centreboard which has little or no ballast. The centreboard is NOT strong enough to support the weight of the hull. Thus designers allow for the stress to be placed on the bunks of the hull which is supported by the trailer's rollers.
The thing to watch though is snow-weight. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but a foot of snow (maybe its a few inches) can translate into an extra ton (2000 lbs) on the bunks. If left unchecked over an extended period of time, the excess weight will damage your hull and indentions will form. I've seen this happen to a San Juan 21 in Calgary. It wasn't pretty and a rather costly repair.

Anyway hopefully the snow is gone for a few months so get out there and sail.

posted May 03, 2002 11:59 AM            

We're seriously thinking of buying a Sandpiper. All my "pre purchase" research indicates that it is a great little boat.

Enjoy the season, D'Arcy

posted May 03, 2002 11:11 PM         

My interest is mainly trailer-sailing and, to me, the Sandpiper is the perfect compromise.

D'Arcy,
75lbs per roller seems OK but let me play the devil's advocate: in the business I'm in (airline) there is such a measurement called "floor bearing capacity"; in this instance it would be "hull bearing capacity"; the rollers are about 4" wide and support maybe 1/2" from their circumference; in other words 37.5lbs per square inche.

If you take into consideration the downward action from our bumpy Quebec roads you can at least double this weight, so we're up to 75lbs per square inch not counting the equipment in the boat.

But let's be positive here and assess the quality and strenght of this hull based on the 18 years it was supported by those rollers without showing any sign of weakness, waving or deformation.

I understand your concern about the loading on the hull. But wait til I tell you about my Wiscot trailer. It must have been standard issue with the Sandpiper in the 80's because it appears in the sales literature that I inherited with my 'piper. It was supplied with only 4 carpeted, plywood pads about 5" square plus 3 centre rollers. Because of the rocker of the boat's hull, only 2 of the centre rollers touched at any one time.

Serge, my Sandpiper was supported at only 6 points.

Since then, I have added a truss onto which I lower the 300lb keel while the boat is on the trailer. I have also added 2 cedar bunks to cradle the hull on either side of the keel to help centre the boat while winching it on. Two additional rollers have been angled against the keelsons to support and to centre the boat on the trailer. I intend to add one more roller under the bow.

My greater concern about the trailer was that the 12" tires were rated for only 800lb each. I was convinced that the weight of the boat plus the gear plus the trailer minus 150lb of tongue weight on the vehicle was pretty freakin close to 1600lb. I have since replaced the 4-bolt x 12" wheels with 4-bolt x 13" Volkswagen rims and radial tires rated @ 1085lb each.

I won't bore you with the details on how I had to extend the length of the axle and rework the fenders. I took the option to sling the axle above the leaf springs so that I required about 3" less water to launch.

Has anyone had any bad experiences trailering a Sandpiper? I have been lucky so far.

posted May 07, 2002 08:37 AM            

Make sure your car can handle the loads. you would think a mini van would be big enough but thats not always the case. Windstars seem OK, Dodge mini vans blow transmissions with alarming regularity. Check your car's specs.

Proper tongue weight is absolutely critical. People often tend to keep the tongue weight lower than recommended because it's easier to lift the trailer. Bad idea! Too light weight will cause the trailer to dangerously fishtail on the highway. Once it starts with a trailor of this size, there is really no way to stop it. The trailor has a mind of its own.

The boat and trailor should be one. Make sure the boat is straped on tight and check it regularly. Doing this will help eliminate some of your concerns about the bumpy Quebec roads Serge. Its amazing how much more damage is caused to a hull if the boat is too loose. Make sure all the other stuff like masts, booms, etc are also secure and padded against rubbing. A loose mast can rub a hole in your boat very quickly. A loose life jacket used for padding can be burnt to a crisp just from the friction.

Make sure your mast doesn't stick too far forward. Do a slow test turn as a wrongly positioned mast can punch through your rear window on the turn. It can go over the car. Be also careful that it doesn't stick too far back. Even if it's well marked with flags, other drivers seem to get hypnotized by the sight of a beautiful boat in front of them. While trying to get up close to read the name on your transom, they don't notice the mast going through their windshield.

SuperPiper makes a good point about tire size. I also think you should always carry a spare. It would be more comfortable though waiting for your spare with a Sandpiper as you could have a nap in the cabin. Nicest place I've waited for a tire: Trans Canada Highway in the Rockies

Avoid fast food drive throughs at all costs. Even Ronald McDonald gets upset when you bend his happy meal signs with your trailer. Park the car, check the staps, etc.

Serge, I still think your all right with the rollers. Your floor weight comment is correct but the hull usually spreads the load. In my business we deal with design loads on floors in housing. For example, a floor load might be 60 lbs per square foot. That being sad, a heavy women (say 180 lbs.) in 1" square high heels excerts 90 lbs per square inch. If she was jumping, the weight is even higher. There is a point when the impact will be too much but 16 rollers would seem fine. A bouncing boat should be avoided for that reason. Hitting a rock while sailing should also be avoided. Then, you are taking the the entire boats weight and hurling it against a point load of say 1 square inch (the sharp rock). Ouch!!

Speaking of bumpy Quebec roads; we used to drive those roads in the 70s with two Lasers on the roof of our Renault 5.

Eric, that is good information. It definitely impacts on how a 'piper should be loaded for trailering.

Does anyone have an accurate weight or displacement for a Sandpiper? The Waterhouse & May literature claimed 1200lbs but CL Sailboat Shop cautioned me that it may be closer to 1300lbs. I do not know how much gear was included in either of these numbers.

posted May 12, 2002 06:04 PM         

After seeing some trailers at a local marina yesterday I can say my 16 rollers trailer looks fine indeed.

Except for the tires !

Superpiper, I have the same 370kg max load 12" tires you had on your trailer. I checked with a trailer dealer nearby and I'm almost positive (they'l have to see it themselves) there's enough space under the fenders to fit some 13" 4bolts wheels with tires showing over 550kg max load. Then all my trailer will need is a good paint job; any color would look better than the actual brownish primer paint.

My Piper should be afloat within a couple of weeks so we can move from the trailing to the sailing.

AT last!!

Another thing I did when I painted my trailer is I stenciled the boats name onto the trailer itself. I think it looks classy and its good for easy identification.

posted May 13, 2002 09:20 AM            

Just a short note to clarify the 800 lbs weight I talked about in my last posting. A Shark weighs about 2,200 lbs. We took off 800 lbs of additional weight. It's amazing what can found on a small boat with a cabin that you may never use: Fishing tackle boxes, 75 piece socket set, cook stoves, box of cleaning soaps, 4 anchors (kept 2 on board), 60 lb. tool box. It all adds up.

posted May 13, 2002 09:25 AM            

Just a short note to clarify the 800 lbs weight I talked about in my last posting. A Shark weighs about 2,200 lbs. We took off 800 lbs of additional weight. It's amazing what can found on a small boat with a cabin that you may never use: Fishing tackle boxes, 75 piece socket set, cook stoves, box of cleaning soaps, 4 anchors (kept 2 on board), 60 lb. tool box. It all adds up.

Another thought on painting the name on your trailer. Some people give their trailer a different name to match the boat. For example, I'm crewing on a boat called Spot (After that classic story See Spot run). The trailer is called Spot Remover.