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Author
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Topic: Boarding Ladder
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Patrick Crooks
Member
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posted February 14, 2005 11:24 PM
   
I just recieved the boarding ladder I ordered from CL. This is a 4 step model with a bend in it.Dumb question: Which way does the bend go when the ladder is in the down position? Is it suppose to bend to or away from the hull? Well, I'm off to Victoria at the end of the week and I'm looking forward to visiting all the chandleries I can find in Victoria and Sidney. Something tells me this is going to be an expensive holiday if my wife lets me loose. If thier is anyone on this forum who has a piper in Victoria or Sidney I'd love to get together with you and see your boat. Patrick
"Barefoot" #924 IP: 207.161.61.41 |
Roger
Member
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posted February 14, 2005 11:49 PM
From my experience on mounting a boarding ladder on my Daysailer II, I would recommend an outie! You just can't seem to get the leverage to pull yourself up when your feet are under the boat, and your knees are banging on the higher rungs.See my setup here:
http://groups.msn.com/RogerConrad/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=127
[This message has been edited by Roger (edited February 15, 2005).] IP: 216.55.214.87 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 15, 2005 09:59 AM
Hee hee.....I ordered the same ladder last year but didn't get around to installing.
besides losing the attaching ss bolts washers & locking nuts, I wondered about the installation also. I have been putting the ladder against a flat wall for inspiration. Looks best with the high part angled back and the longer piece with lower rungs straight down, but ease of boarding may require alternate set-up. No directions came with mine.
By the way...what are you using for a backing plate? I have a 16" length of 4" x 1/8" stainless steel flat bar.IP: 142.177.171.178 |
Roger
Member
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posted February 15, 2005 07:03 PM
This ladder is a home made jobbie. I assembled most of it myself, but did have to get a local aluminum welder to do some stuff like attaching a backing plate. I have no pictures of the inside, but the ladder uprights hook over the front of the transom by about 2 inches down the front. A backing plate of aluminum bar, 1.5 inches x 8 inches x 3/8" is welded to the inside of the hooks of the ladder to take the stress of the hooks on the front of the transom and spread the load. At each end of this backing plate I have drilled and tapped two holes into which I have bolts that screw down and into the transom about a 1/4". This keeps the ladder from popping off. The ladder also folds up and is held up by a hook and loop strap (velcro for my fellow Canadians)Let me know if you have any further questions. IP: 216.55.219.245 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 24, 2005 01:04 PM
re boarding ladders..
I'll be installing mine this springpreferred method:
 alternative method:
 IP: 142.177.171.178 |
SuperPiper
Member
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posted February 24, 2005 05:34 PM
Here is my guess.The horizontal stand-offs with the rubber caps seem long enough to meet the hull if the ladder was installed over the side (rather than over the transom). Would it be practical to cut these stand-offs to suit the curve of your hull or to suit the flat transom? The rubbers would need to be wrestled off and pressed back on after the cut. I am guessing that the ladder should mount with the bottom step out from the boat. What do others think? IP: 65.93.72.245 |
Eric
Member
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posted February 24, 2005 05:51 PM
I agree the stand offs need to meet the hull flat. If they do not, a)the pressure will be concentrated on a smaller area of the stand off, and therefore the fibreglass, and b) after a while the rubber feet will eventually get cut through from the sharp edge of the tube.
The very top area of the Sandpiper transom is slightly angled forward, so maybe you'll be ok.
Re which way to mount it, I choose 'A'. I believe this option puts far less pressure on the ladder frame and stand offs, when boarding the vessel.
My 2 cents. 
EricIP: 130.63.85.93 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 24, 2005 07:49 PM
You guys bring up a good point. Since I ordered the ladder from CL especially for my 'Piper, I had expected it to be 'Custom made'...a perfect fit.
I hate cutting stainless steel, but the tubes may not be a heavy guage. If I shorten the stand-offs so that they sit flush to the transom, the lower part of the ladder in the first example will be curved under the boat. I may have to install the second way.IP: 142.177.171.178 |
elmet3
Member
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posted February 24, 2005 08:28 PM
I agree with Eric. I think orientation A is superior. If you mount orientation B, the bottom step is quite a way out from the boat, not directly below the mounting bracket. This creates a large moment arm. Your weight on the bottom step will essentially pivot the ladder on the point of the horizontal legs and pull mighty hard on the screws at the top mount. If you mount orientation A, the downward pull of the bottom step is more or less in a vertical line with the mounting screws and puts the mounting screws in shear, not tension. Screws are much much stronger in shear and don't try to pull out. IP: 68.73.57.181 |
Ken
Member
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posted February 25, 2005 10:13 AM
I'd mount the ladder as option "B"
I would trim the stand-off legs to make the bottom of the ladder angled only slightly outward, leaving plenty of room between hull and the rest of the ladder to keep from smashing bare toes on the hull. When you put all of your weight on that bottom step the Sandpiper will roll anyway, hopefully bringing that curved end more towards vertical. Mounting the ladder with the curve toward the hull would result in the bottom rung diving under the boat. It would be difficult for most folks to climb out. When Lynn and I were both swimming alongside, we'd have one person swim to the opposite side and hang on to the gunwale or a short piece of rope to counterbalance the person climbing out. Then, once safely in the cockpit, the first person out would shift his body weight to the opposite side of the boat, to help the second swimmer climb a more vertical ladder.
We always secured the boom over onto the ladder side of the cockpit. It's was a great assist to grab when climbing back over the rail.Here's a neat trick! Remove the rubber crutch tips from the ladder legs and insert a coin into the cap. Use a coin the same diameter as the tubing. On Silverheels III a loonie fits perfectly. I used "Goop" cement to stick the tip back on. It's waterproof and could still be removed with a razor knife if the tip eveer needs replacement. The coin will help to prevent the sharp end of the tube from cutting through the rubber tips. If you're feeling adventurous, why not make up some 3 inch wide teak steps with longitudinal grooves. Screw them to the ladder rungs with "U" brackets underneath. These flat steps will be kinder to your bare feet than round tubes. If you make the step a little longer, you can cut a "U" into each end to keep the step from rotating on the the ladder's rungs. One could also use white plastic "King Board" instead of wood. Make sure that the ladder's pivot pins are secured with a round circlip rather than a cotter pin. We don't use cotter pins anywhere on the boat because they tend to shred one's hands and feet. Practical Sailor commented that boarding ladders without wooden or plastic treads were very hard on bare feet. ------------------
"Never be afraid to try something new: Professionals built the Titanic
And amateurs built the Ark." IP: 141.117.228.250 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 25, 2005 11:47 AM
After I had ordered the CL ladder aand before it arrived, I visited the M.M.O.S. boating supply store. They had an absolutly beautiful Italian made boarding ladder with the teak steps. I couldn't find a price tag , and because I had already ordered mine, I didn't wait to see the clerk.
BTW..the ladder will be mounted on the transom and uses ss bolts/washers/nylock nuts at the pivot point.
Thanks for the tip on the coin.
[This message has been edited by whited (edited February 25, 2005).] IP: 142.177.171.178 |
Eric
Member
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posted February 25, 2005 11:59 PM
After reading Ken's post, I started to re-examine, my thinking. Having climbed out of the water onto my Sandpiper, I could relate to his thoughts.
I've looked at Don's pics a dozen times again. I've also gone looking for ladders on the net. I'm starting to think that those stand offs are too long. My original fear was the load on the frame with that outward angle. I'm thinking now that if the ladder is installed with the upper portion perpendicular with the transom, the the outward angle would be less than in the pic. Then I can see how this particular installation would be beneficial when climbing aboard.The coin trick is a good one to remember . Again, treads would be beneficial as they would add some slip resistance as well as comfort. It's a beauty ladder Don . Eric
[This message has been edited by Eric (edited February 26, 2005).] IP: 206.172.173.51 |
Hyprstitch
Member
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posted February 26, 2005 12:15 AM
I keep a ladder stored in the cabin and hang it of the stern when needed. Think I bought it West Marine for about 40 dollars. The only problem I've had is when I had to push off shore and forgot to use it. No problem getting out of the boat, but you sure need the ladder to get in. I'm sure everyone around had a good laugh watching me doing my best to climb abord. A cold fall day, high mountain lake, an me in my wadeders being draged along behind the boat. I'll never forget the ladder again. Sid IP: 198.81.26.106 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2005 12:13 PM
Yes Sid...that's exactly why I bought a permanent mounted one for the transom...rather than a fold up one with the big hooks. As a matter of fact...my boat came with the light aluminum tube/white plastic step hook type.IP: 142.177.171.178 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2005 02:42 PM
Now if I cut the support arms to make the top part plumb with the transom...it might look like this:
 Not much room for toes though.. IP: 142.177.171.178 |
Roger
Member
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posted February 26, 2005 07:49 PM
So I'm looking at your tiller in the background, and I'm trying to figure out what the hand brake looking assembly is just under the front end of the tiller. It looks like it has a short cable attached to it.IP: 216.55.213.97 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2005 10:23 PM
That appears to be the 'tiller tamer' device.
Believe I run a line between two aft cleats and the little cam type cleat on the tiller grabs this line... keeping the tiller in place while I 'refresh my drink'. Squeezing the handle releases the cam cleat.IP: 142.177.171.178 |
Darcy
Member
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posted February 28, 2005 08:55 AM
FYI
If you have a long extendable tiller extension, you can step into the cabin while sailing. Useful to turn on running lights or radio.
D'ArcyIP: 70.48.4.156 |
Roger
Member
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posted February 28, 2005 11:44 PM
That cam release, is it a bought device or did you make it yourself? I would like to see a close up of it, if getting a picture and posting it here would not be too difficult. I use a bungee cord and have a thumb cleat that jams it in place. It works ok, but does shift a bit as I go forward on my DS II.IP: 216.55.213.97 |
whited
unregistered
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posted February 28, 2005 11:55 PM
The tiller tamer was on the tiller when I bought my 'Piper last May......and it looks like it has been around a long time.
I'll get pictures tomorrow.IP: 142.177.171.178 |
Darcy
Member
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posted March 01, 2005 08:34 AM
We have the similar bungee arrangement on Shortwave Roger. Usually works well but on occassion have had rudder pop up on the run. Yuo notice this instantly as it's very hard to move rudder. I think a new bungee might resolve this.On the plus side; it pops up when you hit shallow beach if you're a bit slow getting back there to raise the rudder after cranking up the centreboard.
D'Arcy IP: 65.92.96.113 |
whited
unregistered
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posted March 01, 2005 09:40 AM
roger...can you make out these pictures. That $%%^$& black paint is hard to photograph with my little digital flash.view from underneath tiller arm
 starboard side view:
[This message has been edited by whited (edited March 01, 2005).] IP: 142.177.171.178 |
Roger
Member
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posted March 01, 2005 08:43 PM
I was able to save it to my desktop and lighten the picture. I get a sense of how the lever pulls the cable that releases the cams, but if I can trouble you for a close up of the cams themselves that may help. It does not look like your typicall cam cleat, and I have never seen anything like it in any marine supply store.IP: 216.55.213.97 |
whited
unregistered
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posted March 02, 2005 09:14 AM
Ask and you shall receive...
 and with a thinner line than normal running through..
 [This message has been edited by whited (edited March 02, 2005).] IP: 142.177.171.178 |
Roger
Member
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posted March 03, 2005 12:50 AM
Perfect. Thank you. IP: 216.55.193.154 |
Patrick Crooks
Member
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posted April 20, 2005 12:35 PM
I just got off the phone with Stainless Outfitters, the people who made the ladder for CL. They said the ladder is to be mounted on the transom with the ladder kicking out and the folding legs should be trimed as to make the ladder follow the transom.Patrick "Barefoot" IP: 205.200.66.40 |
whited
unregistered
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posted April 20, 2005 02:05 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Patrick. I was still dilly dalling about my install. The mounted ladder should be similar to my Feb 26 photo.
That makes sense. As I understand it, they recommend that the top rung part of the ladder be parallel (plumb) to the 'Piper transomIP: 142.177.154.253 |
