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Author Topic:   Marina or trailer?...
Michel
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 12:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello all! I just bought my first boat,a Sandpiper(154).I plan to keep it on the trailer and use a ramp on the Saint-Laurent river near my home in the east-end of Montreal.How many of you use ramps instead of keeping it in a marina and how do you deal with the mat raising and things like that?...

IP: 65.93.5.56

whited
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 02:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll be drysailing my 'Piper this year.
I may eventually join a club, but not sure which one.

IP: 142.177.154.253

Michel
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 02:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey whited!
There is a marina just a few streets from my home but they charge over 40$ a foot.I would have to pay about 800$ for my Piper!...I think I will put my money on something else and practice rigging and derigging my little boat.What is 30 to 45 minutes of preparation in a full day of sailing anyway?...
Do you have some practice on that subject?...

IP: 65.93.5.56

Eric
Member
posted April 05, 2005 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eric   Click Here to Email Eric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Done both! The first couple of seasons I kept my boat in a slip at a marina. It was great, since it was my first time sailing and owning a boat. The advantage is convenience. The boat is already for you when you arrive. Got a couple of hours after work on a hot summer evening, and you can go out. Being able to sail often will give you seamanship and sailing experience faster than trailering. $800 for the season is a pretty good price, I'd even go so far as to say cheap. Marinas are nice for other reasons. There are other sailors around to ask questions to, should you need advice. Most every sailor you meet will be very helpful, something you may need for the first year. Also, the slip at the marina is sort of like home. When you return from a full days sail, you can kick back with your crew or guests and enjoy a cold brew on your boat, in the safety of your slip, knowing you don't have to haul out and pack up.

Trailering is a great attribute of the Sandpiper. She's easy to rig and launch. For me, I live in an area that affords me many great sailing destinations, within a couple hours drive. I've lately taken to trying out different locations to sail and explore. Usually however, I must make "plans" to go out. I do not just go out for a quick 2-4 hour sail, like I could if I were slipped. It is usually for a minimum of a whole day. Rigging and trailering are easy, but still a necessary evil after a long day on the water. Many times guests and crew are tired and want to run to the pub, or go home. Packing up from a daysail seems more of a chore than it does after a great 2 or 3 day weekend out. Rigging and launching are more of a hassle if you single hand(but easily done with practice). If you want to sail the very next day from the same place, you'll pay guest slip fees for overnighting. Having said that, if you have the time, anchoring out, or visiting another marina for the night is nice as well.

Trailering means my boat is always in my driveway and kept very clean and shiney ready for her next sail. Any maintenance is done right at home, not a drive to the marina. You don't have to worry if you forgot something when you show up at the marina, 30 minutes away .

I would say, if you want lots of tiller time, keep her in a slip for a season or two. Since you say the marina is a couple of streets away, why wouldn't you keep her there? Guaranteed you'll sail more often and gain sailing experience faster. When you get used to the boat, start trailering to different lakes. Trailering to the same launch ramp all the time will feel time consuming and boring. The Sandpiper is very well suited for travelling.
Good luck and have a great season, whatever you decide to do.

Eric


[This message has been edited by Eric (edited April 05, 2005).]

IP: 130.63.85.93

Michel
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 04:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Eric!
I realise that there are advantages to both approaches.You pointed them out very well.I know about a few places at 20$ a foot or so but these are situated at one hour drive from my place.The marina near my home is fine for motor boats but the Saint-Laurent (in my region)is not a sailing paradise like the Champlain lake.This is the prime reason I find it to be rather expensive if I compare that place to the Sorel/Berthier region with very nice sailing waters.
Where do you sail?...

IP: 65.93.5.56

Shortstay
Member
posted April 05, 2005 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shortstay   Click Here to Email Shortstay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michel, welcome aboard.

We bought Shortstay last July, our first boat, and if you're anything like me, you'll likely find yourself visiting here often, so I'd like to encourage you to register here.

Eric makes very good arguments pointing out the pros & cons of either option. The only thing I might add is if you trailer, you don't have to bottom paint.

I trailer because firstly, well, I'm cheap. I also like the flexibility to sail at different places. We live in mid-VT on the NH border. The closest, best sailing is Lake Sunapee, NH (I posted a report on that venue late last year, if you're interested), but we also trailer to/sail off CT on LI Sound, where we grew up. We plan to go up to Champlain this season (perhaps we could hook up?) as well as Lake Winnipesaukee, NH and perhaps Lake George, NY. We also have a VT State Park season pass so we may check out other places like Lake Bomoseen.

If you look at some of the recent threads, you'll find a link to the 'Piper rigging manual. It will fill you in on the correct procedure. It's not all that onerous & after you do it a few times, you develop your own rhythm/sequencing.

All that said, I wouldn't mind the ease of having a slip somewhere!

Looking forward to seeing you here often!

------------------
Kevin
Shortstay III, #901

IP: 198.115.167.49

whited
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 05:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I spent a number of years as crew on a Mirage 33 which belonged to two clubs.
Royal Nova Scotia Yacht Squadron...10 minute drive from my house ...plushest club probably east of Montreal but expensive. Good points...regular weekly races plus regattas.
This is a club where our skipper had maintenance people on call to take care of every problem....diesel engine, rigging, sails, head etc. We just showed up and there was the boat..all ready for the typical 2.5 hour sail each afternoon.
St. Margaret's Sailing Club ...new small club on a beautiful bay with beaches you could actually swim at. We called this our summer club. It was about a 7.5 hour sail from the main club. I would join this club in a flash if they had a half decent ramp. (30 minutes from home)
There are over a dozen clubs/marinas that would be suitable for a Sandpiper within an hours radius of home. On the other hand, there are numerous ramps available...most free with parking. I didn't sail my 'Piper last year so I'm new like you. This summer will tell.

IP: 142.177.154.253

elmet3
Member
posted April 05, 2005 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elmet3   Click Here to Email elmet3     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eric covered everything pretty well. I spent two years at a slip and enjoyed being able to hop on the boat and sail. I was planning to trailer the Sandpiper this year, but I am rethinking because of the time required. I have put in and out in one day but it is tiring. It isn't so hard to rig the boat, put up the mast etc, but no way i can do that in less than one hour. 1.5 hours is more common if I need to tidy up the boat at all. This includes bending sails, putting on the motor and everything ready to go. If you must do it all in reverse at the end of the day, you've spent 2-3 hours. Add an hour drive each way, 4-5 hours just to get the boat in and out. That really takes some of the fun out of the day. Having said that, I am tired of sailing the same water and would rather not go back to the same slip this year.

I am thinking of a compromise. Slip the boat, and then trailer it places when I can put it in for a couple days or a week.

IP: 67.107.33.106

CoolBreeze
Member
posted April 05, 2005 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CoolBreeze   Click Here to Email CoolBreeze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eric summed it up nicely. I recently made the decision to put mine in a marina this year. Its all about preference. I enjoy the yacht club atmosphere, the events, racing, BBQs etc. I like the convenience of going to my boat, and being able to sail with little prep time. I can get off work at 5, and go for an evening sail. If I trailered it, there'd be no way that could happen. As well, think about a long day sailing, the first thing you want to do is pack up and go home. If you have 45-60 mins of de-rigging, it can be tiring and take the fun out of it. BUT, I see the advantages of not going into a marine, its all about taste. I know my $2000 membership this year (initiation fee included) will be well worth it, as it is difficult to buy atmosphere and friendships, something a marine does well. My preference though

------------------
Rob Belliveau
1976 Sandpiper 565
"CoolBreeze"
Halifax NS
Dartmouth Yacht Club

IP: 24.215.107.164

Windroos
Member
posted April 05, 2005 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Windroos   Click Here to Email Windroos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Michel

I'm from Ste Foy. This is my 5th boat. Eric and all the guy made a clear explanation on the situation they all lived.

As for myself, I have 5 marinas within a range of 20 minutes. I choose one (Neuville) wich is quite small. Only 75 member but it is more like a family.

Like I've read, BBQ and a beer with the boys around are always welcome. Last year Windroos was anchored on Lake Temiscouata a 3 hours ride. I took it off from may till sept.

It is time consuming and risky to rig the boat everytime you want to sail. I will be payin 44$ a foot. It's all right with me since that all I have to do is start the engine and sail my day.

If you need the sandpiper manual, let me know I'll send you the .pdf file.

Au plaisir

------------------
John
Quebec city
1981 Sandpiper 927

IP: 66.131.169.240

Michel
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 08:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks to all of you for the warm welcome.I appreciate your comments and advises.I will now have to make my own experiences.Maybe I will end up in a marina after all,I don't know!... You will hear about it for sure!

BTW,sorry about my english!

IP: 65.93.2.25

whited
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 08:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't apologize for your English. You should have heard my French as I negotiated for my 'Piper in Cap de la Madeleine last May.
Lucky they didn't run me out of town.

IP: 142.177.154.253

Michel
unregistered
posted April 05, 2005 09:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ha!...I feel the same when I go to Ottawa and speak english.I almost sound like Jean Chretien!...

IP: 65.93.2.25

Shortstay
Member
posted April 05, 2005 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shortstay   Click Here to Email Shortstay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jeez, elmet, it doesn't take us nearly that long to rig & de-rig. More like 30-40 min, but perhaps we've gotten our routine streamlined. Hwever, I definitely agree keeping a slip & trailering as needed would be the best of both worlds. I also agree, Rob, it's a bit of a drag to have to haul & de-rig at the end of a daysail.

I'm confused a bit by your remark, John, that it's risky to re-rig. How do you mean?

Moreover, I also like the idea of saving $2000 & "mooring" her on the trailer!

IP: 198.115.167.14

Darcy
Member
posted April 05, 2005 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darcy   Click Here to Email Darcy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On mast raising: New Sandpiper sailors might be interested in the arrangement Shortwave has (Sketches by Ken) Hope this works....

Image hosted by TinyPic.com


Image hosted by TinyPic.com

Shortwaves' mast step is a tabernacle that allows the mast to pivot.

Image hosted by TinyPic.com

Mast hoist in progress. Dad winching up mast. Son hamming it up for the camera.

Image hosted by TinyPic.com

Voila! We're ready to go. Wishbone rig stores on deck.

Image hosted by TinyPic.com

This summer we are planning a few cruises in Muskoka where we will be lowering the mast to pass under bridges. We will sail Lake Rosseau to the Joseph River, motor up the river with mast down, then raise it again as we enter Lake Joseph.

D'Arcy “Shortwave”

IP: 65.92.96.238

Windroos
Member
posted April 05, 2005 10:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Windroos   Click Here to Email Windroos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By risky I mean that I am usually alone and I might drop the mast on the roof. Big $$$$ there. With time I really get used to do it. My first Piper was in 1983

Otherwise if you are 2, it is a piece of cake. Good time also to inspect everything before you step the mast. I will only find the corrupted cable at the end of the season or when it fall on my head. Don't hesitate, at first sign of a sigle frayed cable, change it. 70$ but what's taht compare with all the damage saved.

Sometime my buddy and I are using the piper like a HobbyCat. Stapping ourself out of the boat (trapeze!!) in heavy wind and racing against my brother Tanzer 22. Yep, we won many times.

------------------
John
Quebec city
1981 Sandpiper 927

IP: 66.131.169.240

Eric
Member
posted April 05, 2005 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eric   Click Here to Email Eric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More about trailering!
Michel asked where I sail.
Michel I live just outside of Barrie Ont. I have Lake Simcoe 20 minutes away (closest) and Southern Georgian Bay, Midland Ont., 40 minutes away. I can make it to Parry Sound, the location of the Sandpiper Rendevous this summer in about 2 hours. I can make it to Lake Ontario (Toronto) in about 1.5 hours. Last summer I trailered up to Tobermory in about 3.5 hours.
Now for the places I want to go.
This is probably really crazy, but this May I plan to drive to Pensacola Florida, trailering Paradise, for a sail!!! Yep the BEER Cruise! 70 trailer sailing skippers signed on so far ! I'm not the farthest to travel either BTW.
I would like to head over to Lake Champlain sometime. I love skiing in Vermont, so I'm sure the sailing is great too. Another destination I'm dying to sail, is Long Point on Lake Erie. The Crown Jewel has to be the North Channel, on Lake Huron. I really want to get up there.
There are probably dozens of places I want to go and sail, I just don't have the time . None of these destinations are for a daysail, they're for at least a weekend. Short cruises. I've decided this is what I want to do. I'm also lucky that I have a couple of work mates who slip their boats. If the timing is right, I can go out with them. Other times, to give them a change of pace, they come with me, and we go somewhere different, but for the day. They enjoy the change of scenery!
When you get down to it, it's all a matter of choice. There are so many times I wish I could go down to the marina, release the mooring lines and go out for an evening, or watch the fireworks on Canada Day. I can't justify rigging launching, hauling out and travelling home for a few hours sail. I prefer little cruises in different waters.
My point in all this is, that whatever type of sailing you want to do, the Sandpiper is an excellent little boat to sail. Slip or trailer, it's all good!!
Eric

[This message has been edited by Eric (edited April 05, 2005).]

IP: 206.172.171.54

Eric
Member
posted April 06, 2005 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eric   Click Here to Email Eric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a link from a member of the Trailer Sailor Association list. Click on "Long Point trip 2004", for a great cruise report, with pictures, on Lake Erie's Long Point. http://www.gerrisinc.com/sail/
Eric

IP: 206.172.171.54

Eric
Member
posted April 06, 2005 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eric   Click Here to Email Eric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a link to the B.E.E.R. Cruise in Pensacola Florida. It's gonna be HOT!! http://home.earthlink.net/~benallen/beer_2005.htm
Eric

IP: 206.172.171.54

whited
unregistered
posted April 06, 2005 11:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eric...how many kilometers from your place to the Florida site? It must be close to my distance from Parry Sound.. (4000 km round trip)

IP: 142.177.154.253

whited
unregistered
posted April 06, 2005 11:50 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another thing Eric...heard tv news reports that the US authorities are 'acting up' and tightening things at the border.
Might be a good thing to have passports for entire crew and lots of documentation for boat/motor.
We don't bother registering small boats here in Nova Scotia so I would avoid crossing the border.

IP: 142.177.154.253

Michel
unregistered
posted April 06, 2005 02:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey guys!...I'm really happy about all the good infos I get here.The pics and diagrams on rigging are going to be saved.
The more I think about it,the more I think I will carry on with my original plan that was to use the trailer,instead of a marina.For this season anyway.The Piper looks easy to rig (IMHO)and there are ramps all over on the Saint-Laurent.I want also to visit the surrounding lakes like; Deux-Montagnes,Saint-Louis,Memphremagog,Saint-François,etc...Big program!...

BTW,I can't think of a better boat for this task. The piper is certainly the biggest and best little boat around.IMO,everything else is too small or too big for sailing or trailering.

I know I got the newby's piper fever!...

IP: 65.93.2.25

Eric
Member
posted April 06, 2005 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eric   Click Here to Email Eric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don, you're right on! Mapquest has Barrie to Pensacola @ 1246.5 miles(2007 km). I checked Halifax to Parry Sound, and they quote 1243 miles! Now I can relate to that since I've done the drive out east. I've never driven to FLA.
Re passports at the border, it's pretty much this way now. I grew up and lived in St. Catharines ON until about 12 years ago. Roughly 20 minutes to the border. Going "over the river" was like going across town. No thought was given to ID, apart from having your driver's license. Pull up and say "Canadian", and you were on your way. Now a days, the US are refusing people without at least a birth certificate. They're asking for ID nearly every crossing.
I've been lucky the last couple of times over, I've not been asked. One time I didn't have my Passport, the others I did. Standard equipment now.

Eric

IP: 130.63.85.93

2short S565
Member
posted April 07, 2005 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2short S565     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I always kept mine at a marina. I liked the convenience and the shore power (cold drinks before/during/after)and the reduced chance of damaging something setting it up and taking it down. Itis $28/ft here with power so not too coslty.
I could not imagine myself trailering without that really cool wishbone arrangement. Nice work Ken.

IP: 67.68.139.19

whited
unregistered
posted April 08, 2005 10:29 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
John...I imagine I'll be doing a fair amount of singlehanded sailing over the next few years. My wife is an occasional fair weather sailor but I moved up to the Sandpiper from the CL14 to make her feel more comfortable.
I have taken a few ideas from others in this group to help make the task of mast raising easier & safer.
Since the mast head has to be elevated approx 25 degrees upward in order to insert the foot into the step. I have made up a six foot 'pole' with a roller at the top. This 'crutch' should be a good starting and ending point for the remainder of the raising/lowering. I have another pole (gin) which will attach to the forward edge of mast about 2 feet up from the foot. There will be hardware there to attach my forestay to the top far end and underneath a line that will pass through a block attached to my bowplate and then back to the cockpit. This is the line I'll pull on to raise...or let out to lower.
I installed new padeyes port & starboard the same distance forward of the mast as the shroud padeyes are aft of the mast. A line will loup between the two padeyes on each side and each stretched will be approx level with the mast step. 2 lines will be tied to the mast about six feet above the mastfoot and one end will clip onto the starboard loup and one to the port. This should keep the mast from falling to one side or the other.
I'll be testing my rig early next month in my driveway. Sure hope it works!
see somewhat similar http://www.hereintown.net/~jsiehler/Stepping/Stepping.html

IP: 142.177.154.253

Windroos
Member
posted April 08, 2005 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Windroos   Click Here to Email Windroos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Whited

What a great idea to raise that mast. We surely have to find a way when we are alone. I'v done it many time by myself but it is a little bit scary.

The problem rise with the turnbuckles. I figured that I will tie them to the hand rail with a very thin line wich is easy to break. So, when I raise the mast they will be in the up position. As soon as a certain tension are on them, the line will let go and voila.

Sure your idea is more secure. Will wait for your test and maybe some close picture of all the parts required if you want of course.

I have seen the tabernacle on the above post. Just can't figure how the base of the mast can be place in it. I have a U shape base plate on the mast in wich a bolt from the tabernacle goes in. It must be entering from the back in a sliding motion toward the front then the mast ca be raise.

I can't see that in the picture above. It seems to me as the mast is coming from the front. Maybe in don't understand.

Hum!! gotta take a second look at that pict.

It is nice to go single handle. I like to take a snack in the afternoon and go for a nap in the cabin an hour or so then back sailing. It change your day. Sleeping one night away in a little bay can be fun also. Wakening early in the morning and have a nice breakfast. Looking at the boats around you and feeling the warmth of the sun on your face. What a great time.

Ciao
p.s: would you have a giant snow melter you don't use?

------------------
John
Quebec city
1981 Sandpiper 927

IP: 66.131.169.240

whited
unregistered
posted April 08, 2005 09:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No snow melter...but I bought a Toro 1800 elec snow thrower this year. I haven't needed it in almost 2 months and probably won't use it until January 2006..

IP: 142.177.154.253

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