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Author
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Topic: How much HP
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Windroos
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 06:49 AM
   
HiI live in Quebec city on the St Lawrence river. The current is sometimes 6km per hour. I am replacing my Mercury 7.5 hp 2 strokes engine. I was wandering if a Yamaha feour strokes F6 would have enough powerto do the job? I've been using my Sandpiper on a like and never trried any current. My mercury on a lake was never used at full throttle since it was not necessary. (only .6 km hours difference between full and 5/8 throttle) Thanks for your help. John
Sandpiper 923 (http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=363&class=28&group=O&LANG=en) IP: 66.131.169.240 |
Hyprstitch
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 08:19 AM
It may be worth trying to rent a Yamaha 6HP Four Stroke before buying. Sid IP: 207.200.116.203 |
whited
unregistered
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posted March 31, 2005 09:35 AM
Interesting...current isn't a big deal here in Halifax, but my Sandpiper came from Cap de la Madeleine, Quebec.
The original owner 1986-2002 used it on a lake but sold it to the second owner who used it one year in the St. Lawrence. The following year he moved up to a 26' Grampian. He mentioned to me how big the wakes can get out there from the large freighters racing to & from the ocean.
He may have mentioned the currents, but my french is non-existant and his english was rough.
You might visit a few of the yacht clubs in your sailing area and ask around to see if anyone else is using 6 hp 4 stroke outboards on a similar sized boats. Catch them at the right time and they may be willing to demonstrate.
Another issue...if your 'Piper hull speed is only 4.75 - 5 knots and the current is 6 knots...would you be travelling backwards??[This message has been edited by whited (edited March 31, 2005).] IP: 142.177.154.253 |
Windroos
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 05:10 PM
Thanks guys,Ok, the deal for the 6hp is only good till tomorrow nite. I'll pay 1900$ with a second prop and an alternator and rectifier. It should be 2400$ otherwise. The current at some places is 6 kilometers and not in knots. I remember travelling at 11.5 km with the Mercury. It will gives me a 5 km margin at thoses rough places. Since we usually try to navigate as much as possible with the current it will only occur once in a while but like Murphy said: it is gonna to happen when you don't want it. The difference to go to 8hp is 500$. The carburator is the only difference in a 6 to 8 hp. Since all the boats are under the snow here, I will have to take a guess. Thanks again, maybe someone will post before tomorrow. John IP: 66.131.169.240 |
Ken
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 05:10 PM
That Yamaha F6 you're looking at will be a real bear to raise and lower......38kg (83lbs)The 2 stroke 8hp model is only 27kg (60 lbs)
The propeller gear ratios are identical.
I'd stay 2 stroke.....just my opinion...IP: 141.117.228.250 |
elmet3
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 05:29 PM
Good point on the weight. I'll have to think about that when it comes time to buy a new motor. Just paid somebody to fix my old motor and I expect to keep it around a while. Still seems good. IP: 67.107.33.106 |
Windroos
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 05:44 PM
Yes your are right with the weight. I overlooked that in my comparaison. Fuel economy is important for me. Noise and smell also. One question come to my mind. You and I are align on the water. We both have a 2 and a four stroke (6hp). Where would I see the difference in performance, speed and capacity to push the Sandpiper? After 3 hours of running, how much (in percent) would you have been consuming compare to me? Hum!!! Would be interesting to know before in raise my cash. What do you think? Thanks ------------------
John
Quebec city
Sandpiper 927 IP: 66.131.169.240 |
Darcy
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 05:56 PM
We only seem to use a tank of gas a season. (They are sailboats after all) No matter what motor you get you're not going to use a whole lot of fuel. Sailing performance wise; you really do not want a lot of weight on the stern. Another consideration if you move the motor around a bit is a 2 stroke is less likely to leak oil or gas when it's on its' side. Re sailing in currents: If you're going into the current (sailing or motoring, tide or river) keep close to the shore. There is less current there. D'Arcy IP: 67.70.87.184 |
elmet3
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 06:52 PM
Another good point on the 2 stroke, Darcy! Yes, I suppose that extra weight on the stern, way out at the back, would influence things a bit. I tend to overlook weight distribution, but I have noticed that with me sitting in the cockpit the boat sits a bit lower in the stern anyway. I have moved spare anchors and other stuff forward just to try to level it out. Not sure if or how much it affects sailing. Also, I always remove my motor and store it in the lazerette, on its side. I hadn't thought about it, but I suppose a 4 stroke would be more likely to leak. I guess those are good reasons to stay with the 2 stroke, although I don't like the extra smoke and oil that goes into the water. Hopefully it will run better now I have had it worked on. What about reliability? I have always assumed that a 4 stroke would be more reliable. Is this true? IP: 68.253.101.68 |
Eric
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 07:30 PM
Welcome Windroos! Glad to have you join us  .
There is a correct way and a wrong way to store four strokes on their sides. Honda, the newer ones I've seen, have a type of resting support cast into the side of the engine, so just looking at it will indicate which is the correct side to lay it down.
I have also heard that the lower HP engines, like we would use, are not much quieter than equivelent 2 strokes. This is just something I read on another forum.
I agree with the others regarding weight though, and I personally would probably go with a 2 stroke. They are much simpler motors as far as design and construction are concerned, which is why they are lighter.
EricIP: 130.63.85.93 |
Darcy
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 08:47 PM
Any weight in the stern not only drags the back down but it causes the boat to hobby-horse. More movement = lost energy = less speed. Not that you should do this but the serious racers would put the motor in the cabin to centre the weight. They also would not let the crew on the rail come back into the cockpit when tacking. For safety; keep the motor on the stern though; or in the lazarette.When we cruise in light winds we sit right up at the cabin, one person on each side for the same reason. It's also a very comfortable place to sit on Shortwave. You probably shouldn't have a big anchor and line up at the bow as well. Weight in the ends really slows you down. D'Arcy
"Shortwave" #134 IP: 67.70.87.184 |
CoolBreeze
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 10:07 PM
When I got my Piper last year, it came with a 2002 Honda 4 stroke 8 hp. I can say with CERTAINTY, it is more than enough for that sailboat. A six hp 4 stoke would probably be more than suffice. Weight is an issue I have. It is a drag. It is really nice having all the power though. Another consideration. With a 4 stoke, you will have to (or should) replace the factory mount, with one designed for a 4 stroke. They are larger and more durable. They also cost about 300$. Something else to consider. I have a Johnson 8 hp 2 stoke sitting in my shed in MINT cond, and I often wonder if I should switch up and sell my 4 stoke. BUT the 4 stoke works really well, quiet, VERY fuel efficient. Tough Call------------------
Rob Belliveau
1976 Sandpiper 565
"CoolBreeze"
Halifax NS
Dartmouth Yacht Club IP: 24.215.107.164 |
Ken
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 08:51 AM
When we sailed from Toronto to Kingston on Lake Ontario we had to do lots of motorsailing. We achieved 14-17 hours on a tank of gas (23L?) Perhaps D'Arcy can recall the tank capacity more correctly.The 1998 longshaft Johnson 8hp Sailmaster is a wonderful invention. Starts every time, and runs 15 hours on a tankful. The longshaft helps to keep the prop in the water in rough water, and, since it's for sailboats, the propeller has a low pitch for better thrust at low boat speeds. A regulat putboard is made for boats which travel at planing speeds, 10-20 mph. Even with 8hp fully opened up, the Sandpiper makes only around 5 kts. [This message has been edited by Ken (edited April 01, 2005).] IP: 141.117.228.250 |
Pathfinder
Member
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posted April 03, 2005 09:58 AM
Wind Chime cruises with an 8 lb danforth slipped into a sleeve mounted on the bow pulpit. The anchor is connected to 15 ft of chain and and another 150 ft of rode. The anchor doesn't fit into the anchor locker.The stern is mounted with a 1985 vintage Evinrude 4.5 hp 2 stroke, long-shaft. When loading/balancing the boat with other cruising gear, we check that the waterline stripes are parallel with the waterline. Is this a satisfactory balancing strategy in the interest of maintaining optimum speed? IP: 209.239.0.237 |
Windroos
Member
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posted April 05, 2005 09:31 PM
RobHave you made your choice on a bracket for your motor? I'm kinda scare to loose my brand new Yam 6hp 4 stroke because of the original 1982 bracket. They range from 250$ to 560$. You'd be kind to let me know if you find something interesting. Bye
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John
Quebec city
1981 Sandpiper 927 IP: 66.131.169.240 |
Eric
Member
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posted April 06, 2005 12:31 AM
Stan, I don't think it's in anyones best interest to give you tips on getting better speed, through weight distribution  lol. How are things going anyway? Did you see the Rendevous notice in GAM? As each day passes, and the weather gets more spring like (except for last weekend  ), I look forward more and more to the Civic Holiday weekend, and the Rendevous of Sandpipers! Eric [This message has been edited by Eric (edited April 06, 2005).] IP: 206.172.171.54 |
