posted September 26, 2005 09:01 AM               

A trick on helping your main sail shape, cheat by using your topping lift to get the best shape for the conditions if need be.

P.S. - I've seen people add additional side stays (they have a proper name, but I can't remember it right now) to boats before, not a Piper though, and I would think that this would increase the stability of the mast vs put additional force on it.

posted September 26, 2005 12:38 PM               

Even when we were running downwind this weekend in up to 30 kt gusts with a spinnaker, our headstay (a foil) looked like spagetti. And that was with some backstay tension.

I agree with the comments on running the lines aft, for safety and convenience, best bang for the buck!!!

posted September 26, 2005 11:48 PM               

I'm now in the "leave the rig alone" camp. The Sandpiper is really a large dinghy with a simple rig. As soon as I get the helm balanced to my liking, I intend to try cranking down the side stays as you would on some dinghys. This should help the forestay. We've been keeping the rig quite loose until now.

Our forestay arrangement is made up of a lot of pieces; upper rigid flanges, furler, jib wire, turnbuckle, furler drum, extension plates to angle furling drum. We're going to try eliminating some of the components. As Thoreau said "Simplify, Simplify, Simplify". We'll get a longer jib wire and eliminate the turnbuckle. Rig tension can be carried out on the side stays. The new arrangement will hopefully get rid of a few pin joints that bend the luff at different angles. It will also look tidier.

D'Arcy, Shortwave

posted September 28, 2005 03:58 PM               

Also...ShortWave's furling system was modified over the years. The drum was raised to allow easier use of the Delta anchor on the bow roller. The furler that I installed to replace the hanked jib was originally a single line system. The drum's small capacity caused frequent annoying furling line backlash. After experimenting with various control line sizes, we changed the drum to accomodate a continuous fuurling line, led back along the port side to a block on the cockpit coaming. Why the furling control line on the port side? Well, initially it WAS on starb'd but it then crossed over the anchor line leading from the anchor locker to the bow roller. In 2001 a bright light went on in my head, and we switched sides.
By the way, the jib furls around a rotating wire forestay. There is no big-boat luff extrusion. The luff of the sail was stitched to the wire. The forestay has a rotating bearing at top and bottom.

posted September 28, 2005 05:10 PM               

Besides keeping the furling line away from the anchor, the raised drum allows the line to come in at a perfect 90-degree angle to the stay so it runs very smoothly. It's a neat, efficient system.

posted September 29, 2005 08:48 AM               

Fractional : Forestay attaches about 3/4 up the mast.

Masthead : Forestay attaches at the top of the mast.

Don's article explains the sailing difference between the two. The Sandpiper is a fractional rig. (Good article Don) I definately prefer most fractionals over most masthead boats.

The key is this, boats designed to be fractional or masthead, are rigged according to the way the designer felt the boat would perform the best and safely.
There are fractional rigged boats out there who do not have runningbacks, but needless to say, I haven't seen anyone add them after the fact. They do serve a purpose, a good one on a fractional rig, they are not always needed example Niagara 26 - fractional, great race/cruising boat, no runningbacks. Newer Hunter 33 - Fractional, no runingbacks or backstay.

So, at the end of the day, the Piper doesn't have either because with proper tuning, and sailing within the limits of the boat (i.e. wind conditions etc...) those items aren't needed and adding them could un-doubtably make the boat un-safe.

posted September 29, 2005 02:29 PM            

My initial solution was to add a permanent backstay. But you can't tension those much on a fractional rig like the Sandpiper, as the mast bends back fairly easy. You can test this for yourself by pulling back on the topping lift line on the boom.

I ultimately increased the size of the shrouds by one size (I believe to 5/32" dia.), increased the size of the terminal pin on the upper end, and reinforced the deck under the pad eyes with 1/4"x2"x2"x10" alumininum angle. This allowed me to keep the shrouds on the tight side without fear of them breaking or ripping out of the deck.

The real idea of my larger shrouds was to reduce their tendency to stretch under load. This is what causes the mast to lean forward, resulting in slacking of the forestay. All wires stretch under load and this is why leeward shrouds go slack. Mine still did even with the larger size, but in my case the stretch was reduced and the forestay never slacked significantly, keeping my furler foil straight.

I ended up using the backstay more as something to hang the end of the boom on when I put the main sail down. I didn't like the topping lift line so had removed it.

Further to Coolbreeze's comments;
The ultimate for keeping the forestay tight-tight on a fractional rig are running backstays. These are two seperate lines that run from the mast where the forestay connects to it, then down to high ratio block arrangements at the transom. The stays connect one on each side of the mast so the main sail can run up between them. When tacking you have to slack off the leeward stay and snugg up the windward stay. They can be a pain but they work well on my Luna 24. They were not stock - they were added by the previous owner.

Fred

posted September 30, 2005 05:29 PM            

Give us a Luna update.

That boat was so pretty on the trailer that I would have been tempted to leave it right there for the entire summer. How did she perform for you? What was the optimum crew size? Did she point? Did she run well? Comment on the accommodations.