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Author
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Topic: S565 Keel Crank Handle
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Shortstay
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 12:07 AM
   
Hey, folks, I keep forgetting to ask this question.The handle on the keel screw needs either gloves, a rag or heavy calluses since the knob -- well, ours, at least -- doesn't turn while you turn the crank. Does anyone have a better option? I'm thinking there must be a crank handle that has a shaft in the middle of the knob which allows it to spin while you crank. Thanks! ------------------
Kevin
Shortstay III, #901 IP: 204.60.161.7 |
Hyprstitch
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 07:45 AM
I made my own put of Alumium Square tubing and round stock. The handle turns easy on the handle shift. I made an electrc one also, but have not used it. Worried I won't know when to cut it off.Sid IP: 152.163.253.103 |
Ken
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 07:49 AM
Make sure you have lots of lubrication on the bronze jackscrew inside the mechanism. Also lubricate the top bearing.
The keel screw shouldn't take that much effort to operate.IP: 141.117.228.250 |
Shortstay
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 08:57 AM
Thank you both for the replies.Ken, I've been thinking I should lubricate the mechanism as many aspects of the boat seem to have suffered from benign neglect. Is there a particular kind of lubricant you recommend? Notwithstanding, I'd like to find a crank which doesn't cause indian burns! IP: 204.60.60.146 |
Darcy
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 09:10 AM
Shortwaves' (Ken's old boat) crank has a fixed knob but because the whole system is lubricated it is very easy to crank up and down. Even my young neices & nephews can raise the keel. They think it's great fun.D'Arcy IP: 65.95.111.108 |
Shortstay
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 09:15 AM
You're probably right. Once I lubricate it, I won't fret about the handle.When we first got Shortstay, it was quite a labor. As we've used her more, it's gotten much easier, but I'm sure the screw needs some attention. IP: 204.60.60.146 |
Eric
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 12:00 PM
My keel screw crank handle was a remake. I got a plastic file handle and drilled it out to fit on the rod. It's snug enough that the handle doesn't fall off, yet turns easily.The spring that I took possesion of my boat, I could barely crank the keel down. I removed everything to clean and lubricate the jack screw. I could then crank the keel with my baby finger. My youngest son, 5 at the time, had no problem at all!
It's now in the 4th season since that job was done, and this year she's starting to get tight again. Austin is getting tired part way through, using 2 hands!
I used anti-sieze compound as the screw lube. We use this stuff at work on valve stems, for everything, HP steam, condensate, air and water. It's really durable. It does not wash away easily! Your results may vary  Looks like the job lasts 3-4 years. The last 2 years, I've been trailering, so the keel gets used alot. I don't think that's too bad (or is it). Is there something that lasts longer? Eric [This message has been edited by Eric (edited August 13, 2004).] [This message has been edited by Eric (edited August 13, 2004).] IP: 130.63.85.93 |
2short S565
Member
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posted August 13, 2004 08:24 PM
I can vouch for the effects of lubrication. I used Mercury 2-4-C marine grease. It is water resistant and will not break down when it gets wet. It also contains teflon for added friction resistance.
As has been said, its take very little grip to hold the handle, and so the knob slips easy in your hand.Fred IP: 67.70.4.223 |
elmet3
Member
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posted August 16, 2004 02:05 PM
I broke off the plastic handle and installed a rotating aluminum handle. I got tired of indian burn, too. IP: 67.107.33.106 |
Richard
Member
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posted August 16, 2004 03:27 PM
Mine was very hard to turn when I got the boat, so I ordered a new bearing kit from CL.(includes instructions, rivets, etc.)
When it was apart, I found the old bearing was shot, and the screw was slightly bent(easily straightened though). Works fine now.
The lubricant to use is just regular marine grease.
IP: 216.86.96.83 |
elmet3
Member
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posted August 16, 2004 06:17 PM
how difficult is it to get at the bearing just to check it out? How difficult to get the screw out? IP: 67.107.33.106 |
2short S565
Member
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posted August 16, 2004 07:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by elmet3:
how difficult is it to get at the bearing just to check it out? How difficult to get the screw out?
To get at bearing;
-Put boat on trailer.
-Install blocking (make sure it is stable) up to near the underside of boat under center of keel.
-Lower keel onto the blocking.
-Remove the table top and fiberglass keel housing cover.
-Continue turning screw as if to lower the keel another 6" or so. (The nut end of the screw will rise.)
-You can now slide the bearing up the screw and have a look at it. If you want to remove the bearing completely knock the split pins out of the nuts and take them off. Make note of which one is the top one and which one is the lower one and mark the top of both nuts (so you put them back exactly as removed - this is to make sure the holes in the nuts line up with the holes in the screw). To remove the screw;
In my case the nut on the top of the keel had been more securely bolted to the lead and then fiberglassed over. Not sure if the nut can be removed from above from the stock keels.
So for me I had to remove the screw I had to remove the keel and drill a 1.5" diameter hole in the underside of the keel in line with the screw and unscrew it out the bottom of the keel. Check to see hows yours is before you go to all that trouble! Fred [This message has been edited by 2short S565 (edited August 16, 2004).] IP: 67.70.4.223 |
elmet3
Member
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posted August 16, 2004 08:01 PM
Wow! Guess I won't be removing the screw. But I will have a look at the bearing on top next time the boat is on a trailer. IP: 64.12.117.21 |
2short S565
Member
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posted August 16, 2004 10:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by elmet3:
Wow! Guess I won't be removing the screw. But I will have a look at the bearing on top next time the boat is on a trailer.
Well look at how the nut is fastened to the top of the keel. Like I said Im not sure how the stock keel is done. My nut mounting was reinforced big time as compared to the original, so I had to remove the screw thru the bottom of the keel.
Maybe someone else can confirm how the stock keels are done.
Fred IP: 67.70.4.223 |
Shortstay
Member
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posted August 17, 2004 10:34 AM
Thanks for continuing this discussion, folks. I'm really benefiting from being a fly-on-the-wall! I've been planning to re-lube the screw even before I posted this topic. Now you're covering it all for me.I'm on vacation in Williamsburg, VA, but unfortunately had to leave Shortstay behind!  Equally unfortunate, access to the i-net is only occasional.
------------------
Kevin
Shortstay III, #901
[This message has been edited by Shortstay (edited August 17, 2004).] IP: 4.152.210.176 |
SuperPiper
Member
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posted August 19, 2004 05:12 AM
I have not serviced my screw. Some of you have had the top off of the centreboard trunk. What did you see? Is the lower section of the trunk quite solid? That must be a heavy piece of fibreglass. Or did I read on this forum that the lower section is rough, hollow and filled with blocks of foam?Could it be possible to install an inspection port in the side of the top/removable section? Would a removable port allow easy access into the screw for lubricating? I have always considered taking the teak table from the top of the trunk and re-installing it lower and at a more conventional table-top height. My table is almost chin height in its current arrangement. IP: 64.230.162.190 |
Ken
Member
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posted August 19, 2004 08:06 AM
When you remove the fibreglass cover you will see an aluminum plate which was originally pop riveted to the top of the trunk. Drill the 4 rivets out and remove them. You will use large stainless screws to replace them when you're done. After firmly supporting the keel from under the boat; when you turn the keel screw counterclockwise it will rise out of the trunk. Clean it with mineral spirits and regrease with waterproof grease. Crank it back down and you're done. Inspect the bearing, grease it or replace if necessary. My original bearing was a ball race type. The replacement I got from a supplier is the roller type.------------------
"Never be afraid to try something new: Professionals built the Titanic
And amateurs built the Ark." IP: 141.117.228.250 |
Hyprstitch
Member
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posted August 19, 2004 08:25 AM
But then you would loose a lot of your table top space. It would have to go around the trunk, and you would leave the top of the trunk exposed, main reason for the table. On light wind days I leave my soft cooler on the table top. Sid IP: 64.12.117.21 |
2short S565
Member
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posted August 19, 2004 12:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SuperPiper:
I have not serviced my screw. Some of you have had the top off of the centreboard trunk. What did you see? Is the lower section of the trunk quite solid? That must be a heavy piece of fibreglass. Or did I read on this forum that the lower section is rough, hollow and filled with blocks of foam?Could it be possible to install an inspection port in the side of the top/removable section? Would a removable port allow easy access into the screw for lubricating? I have always considered taking the teak table from the top of the trunk and re-installing it lower and at a more conventional table-top height. My table is almost chin height in its current arrangement.
The keel slides up inside a fiberglass case or trunk that is entirely closed except for the hole for the screw. That enclosure is essentially part of the bottom of the boat and is very rough on the cabin side. The visible keel box is a seperate finished fiberglass enclosure. There is expanded foam insulation between the two but only to the level of the bottom of the upper portion.
In 5 min. or less you can undo the 20 or so screws around the base of the upper keel box and lift it off , complete with the table. The upper portion of the keel case/trunk will be exposed and you will see how the thrust bearing and mounting plate mounted is on top of the case, just as Ken describes.
There really is no practical way to put inspection ports to inspect/lube the screw. That inner case/trunk must be kept water tight.
In the spring while your boat is on the trailer, take a few minutes to throw some blocking under the boat. Lube the screw once and it will be good for a season. The table cannot be lowered. Its height is determined by the keel case/trunk. Fred Has-been Sandpiper owner [This message has been edited by 2short S565 (edited August 19, 2004).] IP: 205.207.185.116 |
Shortstay
Member
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posted September 09, 2004 11:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken:
When you remove the fibreglass cover you will see an aluminum plate... Drill the 4 rivets out and remove them. You will use large stainless screws to replace them when you're done.
Hold on, Ken. Didn't I read to avoid aluminum/stainless steel contact??? I think it was in an archive from a topic last year. Someone (maybe Eric) mentioned it when someone was asking about attaching something to the mast with s/s screws? IP: 198.115.167.19 |
Shortstay
Member
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posted September 09, 2004 11:19 PM
Found it... It wasn't Eric, but it was in a topic on which he participated. It was also two years ago:cgj, Member
posted October 05, 2002 08:53 PM Robert,
stainless steel and aluminum don't mix.
you will basically be creating a battery when you place the two in contact with each other.
this when in contact will let galvanic corrosion to begin, your aluminum becomes a sacrificial anode.
ask any landrover owner and they will agree.
much better to invest in a cheap pop rivet gun and use all aluminum rivets.
my experiance with this situation on boats is limited so if anyone on this list can elaborate please do.
if you sail in salt water the problem gets worse I'm sure.
Good luck,
Chris
http://www.vaxxine.com/clsailboats/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000197.html BTW-Today I went ahead & purchased the swivel head rivet gun mentioned in this thread... So much good info & ideas from the collected wisdom of this group! IP: 198.115.167.19 |
Eric
Member
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posted September 10, 2004 06:27 AM
Ah ha, lol I can't be blamed for everything  I have some alumminum backing plates that are securing SS fasteners. I check over these areas regularly, and have not noticed any problems. In fact, the pad eyes for the shrouds are backed by aluminum, (probably factory), and are ok. In a perfect world, I suppose SS->SS connections are best. Eric IP: 130.63.85.93 |
whited
unregistered
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posted September 10, 2004 09:53 AM
I just went through this topic again yeaterday with a local metal shop. My sisters & mom bought me a Sears Craftsman 1/2 hp bench drill press as thanks for being administrator for our dad's estate.
I was all set to use ss backing plates, but chickened out and had the guy makeup a half dozen 1/8" thick aluminum plates 4" x 3.5" out of flatbar. I filed the plates last night to remove any sharp edges and to round the corners. While over in Burnside I visited Rideout Tools, Busy Bee Tools and the DeWalt Service Center. All seemed a bit iffy about drilling ss plate. After buying two different types of cutting oil and some new drill bits (titanium coated...not colbat) I decided this was getting to be a chore. I'll fabricate a plastic 'washer' between the ss washer/nut and the aluminum backing plate to avoid the pitting. I'll also use 'Brushon Electrical Tape' where I think the bolt shaft/threads may touch the aluminum. I'm hoping the fittings will be waterproof with the 3M4200 and since the aluminum will be in the cabin...no problem.IP: 156.34.88.245 |
