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Author
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Topic: Piper - Screw Pin !!!??? HELP
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CoolBreeze
Member
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posted March 26, 2005 05:29 PM
   
Well, Today was a beautiful day in Halifax, so the cover came off for the first time this year!!!
First time working on it, first problem:
I have a new bearing kit for the keel screw. BUT, I couldn't seem to drive the pin out of the top "bolt".The bottom cotter pin came out fine, I think the top one is original. Any thoughts??? I am wondering if the pin is actually broken inside? Looks awefully small to be drilled out. ERRRRRR, I thought this wouldn't a hard thing to do... NEED HELP!!!------------------
Rob Belliveau
1976 Sandpiper 565
"CoolBreeze"
Halifax NS
Dartmouth Yacht Club IP: 24.215.107.164 |
whited
unregistered
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posted March 26, 2005 07:51 PM
Rob...when you get the procedure down pat, I'll be asking you for advice. I haven't fully lowered my keel yet.....took the previous owners word that it worked fine.IP: 142.177.154.253 |
elmet3
Member
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posted March 26, 2005 08:12 PM
I won't be much help, but I experienced some difficulty with the same thing. It seemed that operating the screw had twisted the nut just a bit. I was able to force the nut back and forth just a miniscule amount and then I could drive out the pin. IP: 69.212.31.248 |
CoolBreeze
Member
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posted March 26, 2005 09:09 PM
I've had the plate apart before, I had to re-fasten it due to an unfortunate circumstance!!! BUT, I have yet to replace these bearings, I think I may need to move the nut around slightly as well. Hope to hear from others!!!! ------------------
Rob Belliveau
1976 Sandpiper 565
"CoolBreeze"
Halifax NS
Dartmouth Yacht Club IP: 24.215.107.164 |
Ken
Member
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posted March 28, 2005 11:59 AM
You need not remove the nut if you're only lubricating the keel's jackscrew. Drill out the 4 rivets holding the plate down and, while the keel is blocked up from underneath, turn the screw counterclockwise. It'll rise out of the keel housing. To remove the pin securing the nut, drive it out with a narrow machinist's metal drift or punch tool. If you're careful, you can use an old drill bit as the punch. The drift diameter must closely match the size of the pin. When you have something to grab, smallish Vice-grips are handy. A cotter pin cannot be drilled out! ------------------
"Never be afraid to try something new: Professionals built the Titanic
And amateurs built the Ark." [This message has been edited by Ken (edited March 28, 2005).] [This message has been edited by Ken (edited April 01, 2005).] IP: 141.117.228.250 |
Windroos
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 05:53 PM
I have taken out the bearings many times and even put some new one last year. I bought a box (50 pins) to replace the original on that had curved. They are so strong that you can't hardly cut them. I used them to push the old pins out and it does the job.If you ever need a couple of them, I'll gladly send you a few if you wish (free of course). The job of greasing the shaft was easy. Took the table out, put a block of wood under the keel. Took the 4 rivets out and cranked the rod. It came out at the cabin level. I then cleaned and greased the bronze shaft and put everything back in place. (thaks to a guy name Eric fron ontario I guess, who gave me the trick) Too band I cannot post because I would've show you some pictures. Take care ------------------
John
Quebec city
Sandpiper 927 IP: 66.131.169.240 |
CoolBreeze
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 10:11 PM
So the pin on the "nut" does not have to come out. I can simply drill out the rivots and unscrew it out of the keel? The boat is currently on a trailer- so the keel won't move if I unscrew the yoke? ------------------
Rob Belliveau
1976 Sandpiper 565
"CoolBreeze"
Halifax NS
Dartmouth Yacht Club IP: 24.215.107.164 |
2short S565
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 10:29 PM
To replace the thrust bearing you MUST remove the nuts on the top of the screw.After that, removing the bearing plate that is mounted on the top of the keel box will enable you to put grease on the screw all the way down to the top of the keel. The screw cannot be unscrewed completely out of the keel. There is a "stop" at the bottom of the screw that prevents this.
Get a drift punch of the correct size and go at it. Have a buddy hold a HEAVY metal weight against the opposite side of the nut while you pound on the punch, to prevent from damaging anything (ie bending the screw or messing up the nut that is mounted on the top of the keel).
Go buy the proper sized punch! IP: 70.48.166.149 |
2short S565
Member
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posted March 31, 2005 10:35 PM
A thought;
If you can't get the pin out of the nut, block the keel under the boat, unscrew the keel screw as far as it will go inside the boat and inspect the bearing.
Youll be able to slide it up the screw and clean it with solvent. Look at it and if everything looks OK and it turns smoothly, then just regrease the bearing and the screw with marine grease and put it all back together.
IP: 70.48.166.149 |
Eric
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 12:31 AM
Still yet another thought  The bearing doesn't necessarily need to be replaced, unless it's badly rusted or something. It's purpose is simply to remove friction from the washer under the bottom nut when turning the crank. Clean it up with degreaser or contact cleaner to remove grease and dirt and inspect it. It's a real light duty bearing, as bearings go, that serves a simple purpose. There's no way to burn it out, like wheel bearings on trailer wheels.
When lubing it up, use very little grease. You don't want to attract dirt with gobbs of grease.
Eric [This message has been edited by Eric (edited April 01, 2005).] IP: 130.63.85.93 |
CoolBreeze
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 07:25 AM
It is an older ball bearing type. Last year, there were some issues with retracting the keel, mainly due to a paint that was put on it but was too thick. A washer that was between the bearing and the base plate snapped into a million pieces. The bearings currently use the base plate on one side and the upper washer on the other. If it is ok to roll on the base plate, I'd be all for lubing and leaving it alone... any thoughts?IP: 24.215.107.164 |
Eric
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 08:47 AM
Rob that sounds a little strange when you say the washer broke in a million pieces. Usually bearings are sacrificial so to speak, so I wonder if infact you have broken the bearing, or it's race?
Regardless, the plate on the trunk looks to be stainless (on my boat), and therefore quite strong, and should be able to withstand the arrangement you describe for a while.
You probably have a million things you want to do this first season with Cool Breeze. Deferring this repair for a year should not cause severe harm, as I understand your post. That said, I would definately plan on putting this job near the top of your "to do" list 
Others may have different opinions.
EricIP: 64.228.1.99 |
Ken
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 08:59 AM
The top plate on the keel trunk is aluminum I think. It's soft. You need to have the bearing operating between two hardened steel washers.
I bought a replacement bearing kit from CL and instead of ball bearings it was a sturdy roller bearing. Well worth the effort, and not very expensive. I lubricated the jackscrew every two seasons. It takes only 45 minutes. Replace the large pop rivets with large stainless screws sirectly into the fibreglass trunk.IP: 141.117.228.250 |
windros
unregistered
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posted April 01, 2005 11:10 AM
Hi! 2short S565I replaced my original bearing with a set of 2 needle bearings separated by washers and grease everything up. Cheap and very efficient. Tell me 2short S565, do you know what prevent the keel from falling when you crank it down. Is it a pin, or what? Have you ever heard of someone loosing is keel while sailing? Bye
IP: 66.130.254.220 |
whited
unregistered
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posted April 01, 2005 01:26 PM
John...
If you don't have your original Sandpiper 565 'Rigging Instructions' manual go to following link..... http://www.gryc.ca/Sailing/GRYC_Sandpiper_565_Rigging_Manual.pdf
see page 16 for drawing of keel assemblyDon in Halifax [This message has been edited by whited (edited April 01, 2005).] IP: 142.177.154.253 |
2short S565
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 06:20 PM
Look at the pic in Whited's link. The thread does not run off the end of the screw. There is an unthreaded knob at the bottom end of the screw that will bottom out against the nut that is mounted on the top of the keel.
The only way to lose the keel is for the screw to break or for the nut that is mounted on the top of the keel itself to break loose from the keel.
Even if you ram the boat aground onto rocks at full motoring speed of 7+mph it is likely that the screw will just bend. I know that from experience 
But then the mounting of my nut on the keel was reinforced.
[This message has been edited by 2short S565 (edited April 01, 2005).] IP: 70.48.166.149 |
Windroos
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 09:29 PM
Whited, How can I tank you? I never had this manual before. This is my second Sandpiper and I never heard of it. I am very gratefull for this file.As for the pin on the keel "2short S565" you really helped me with understanding a long un-answer question. (sorry for my english) Now I can sleep easyly. What a great forum. I have only been here 3 days and got so many answers than anybody can ask for. Thanks again guys. Your are are very helpfull.
------------------
John
Quebec city
Sandpiper 927 IP: 66.131.169.240 |
whited
unregistered
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posted April 01, 2005 10:14 PM
My pleasure!
I was lucky enough to get the 'original' rigging manual with my 'Piper. Looks like it has been hardly read.IP: 142.177.154.253 |
CoolBreeze
Member
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posted April 01, 2005 10:29 PM
I too have the bearing kit from CL. That is what I would like to pur in, roller, instead of ball bearing. The bottom washer did break into pieces - I think it was original, or close to it. I know I will have the keel down 97% of the season, so, no, I am not worried about it. Just like to get it done!! ------------------
Rob Belliveau
1976 Sandpiper 565
"CoolBreeze"
Halifax NS
Dartmouth Yacht Club IP: 24.215.107.164 |
Windroos
Member
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posted April 03, 2005 02:54 PM
Test of imagesGo to this site to view pictures on greasing the shaft and a pict of my Windroos.
John
********************
Try this one, it seems to be working for me.
Will try on my other computer in the basement.
http://cf.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sfy911/album?.dir=/43cf&.src=ph [This message has been edited by Windroos (edited April 03, 2005).] [This message has been edited by Windroos (edited April 03, 2005).] IP: 66.131.169.240 |
whited
unregistered
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posted April 03, 2005 05:04 PM
John...I got an error message when I tried to view your photos.
It keeps telling me to try again.IP: 142.177.154.253 |
elmet3
Member
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posted April 03, 2005 08:18 PM
They worked for me. Always nice to see photos of other Sandpipers.
ArthurIP: 68.74.30.14 |
Windroos
Member
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posted April 03, 2005 08:58 PM
Try this,
Just placed some new pict.
http://cf.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sfy911/album?.dir=/43cf&.src=ph ------------------
John
Quebec city
1981 Sandpiper 927 IP: 66.131.169.240 |
whited
unregistered
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posted April 03, 2005 09:36 PM
That's an especially nice picture where your 'crew' catches the rainbow in her hand.IP: 142.177.154.253 |
Patrick Crooks
Member
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posted April 18, 2005 01:53 PM
Hello Rob,I talked with my tool room guys and they said to do what everyone else said and that is to block the back end of the nut really good and go at it with the hammer and punch at the other end. They said if the nut is not blocked so it won't move it won't work so it would be best to have a friend help. Other than that they suggested to shear the nut off and replace with another. Patrick "Barefoot"
IP: 205.200.66.40 |
