posted September 23, 2005 06:43 PM               

I’m the (new) owner of a SandPiper 565, in the region of Québec, Canada. I mostly speak French; my English is not perfect yet.

I am trying to make my sandpiper a little bit faster. I found in your posts a lot of good way to improve the comfort and performances of the sandpiper. I am currently writing a list of the improvements I would like to realize. If you have your own “to do” list, I would be really interested to see what it looks like. I could even take it all together and make a big “improvement lists”. (A kind of tuning guide or something.)

I work in engineering. I am therefore really interested about the technical stuff; autopilots, electronics, hull design, etc. By the way, did any of you found the technical drawings of the S565? It would be useful in many ways.

If you have any kind of suggestions, drawings, tips, tricks, feel free to e-mail me.

Bon vent!

posted September 23, 2005 09:24 PM              

I sail in the Contrecoeur region (Beetween Sorel and Montreal) And she is doing fine even if she is not the fastest boat around.I found out that reducing sails improve her going upwind when facing the Saint-Laurent current.

I consider a 5.50 knots speed not to bad for a boat this size.

posted September 24, 2005 03:38 PM               

I mostly sailed near Drummondville and on Lac St-Joseph... But I have a new job in montreal now, my boat is in Québec, and my car is broken. I have to find a not too expensive marina nearby for next year.
I will probably sail on St-Lawrence river next summer. Because of the situation, my sailing season is kinda finished.

That's why I'm already looking for boat improvements and projects for winter.

I am planning to change my mainsail soon... I will try to replace the sheet with a bigger one. I will therefore have to move the mast a little bit, add some weight to the "keel?" and maybe use a little electric pump and the storage behind the berts as water ballasts (if necessary). I am also thinking about fixing outside tanks (removable) to be used as ballasts.

posted September 25, 2005 10:27 AM               

I think it's great you want to tinker with your 'Piper to maximize its performance, but as some here have noted in the past, the best way to improve performance is to sail her!

As for moving the mast, I think it's an unwise modification. "It what it is," as they say. Or, as others might say, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." The 'Piper was designed to sail on the English Channel, so she's built for stability. Moving the mast would present two major problems.

First, unless you're going to provide a new support inside the cabin underneath the step, you'll crash through the coachroof at some point! The interior is already rather snug, so I don't think you want to add impediments in there. You'd also have to move the chainplates for the shrouds. A very extensive modification, plus you'd probably have a weakened point in the deck where they used to live.

Second, the balance of the boat under sail would be significantly altered. I'm not an engineer, so I can't begin to conceptualize how it might change, but I don't think it would be good.

If the 'Piper's design is so unsuited to your needs, whatever they might be, then it might be better to find a boat already designed to satisfy those needs rather than re-engineering your 'Piper. (No disrespect intended.)

If you want a trailerable, easily launched weekender; comfortable in the cockpit and pretty dry due to her high freeboard; suitable for sleeping 2 adults & 2 kids; and able to make 5+ knots in a good breeze; then you have a great boat.

If you want a speed demon, you're looking for a different boat. I'd suggest a multihull, like the new Corsair Sprint 750 or a boat I have an eye on myself, the Telstar 28.

------------------
Kevin
Shortstay III, #901

posted September 25, 2005 11:06 AM               

There was a post on sail roach last year, but it was inconclusive. Does anyone know what this modification might do to the boat's balance? Anyone think it would be a good idea? It's certainly a subject a good engineer, like Rémy, might sink his teeth into!

posted September 25, 2005 12:31 PM               

Anyway... the problem (as long as I understand it) is the same. The (centre de poussée vélique) geometrical center (where the resulting lateral forces apply on the sheet) moves back. Leading me to the idea of moving the mast forward a little to re-center it. But I didnt tought about the weight.

But moving the mast a little bit would not change much in comparison with all the weight we already place at the back of the boat. Motor, gaz, 4 people, batteries, extra anchors, potable water, etc. I wonder if the way we place weight on the sandpiper changes "significatively?" the way it sails.

posted September 25, 2005 11:58 PM            

A taller mast, bigger sail and more ballast just adds stress to the rigging, not speed.

To exceed the hull speed you have to have a planing hull, flat at the back and most of the underbelly aft of amidships. Even then your speed has to exceed 2x the square root of the waterline length in order to get up to a plane by climbing the bow wave.

posted September 26, 2005 09:00 AM               

I think we've picked up a lot of speed this season just by tuning and learning how to drive a centreboard / keel boat. We took the same 8 mile upwind trip to the Village of Windermere on our lake that we did last year in 45 minutes less time.

There's a lot of boat speed to be had in these marvellous little boats before doing anything radical.

posted September 27, 2005 03:58 AM            

You'll get used to these guys. They seem to be very traditional yachters.

Don't hesitate to make mods. The Sandpiper 565 is not a 1-design. And, there is room for improvement.

I recently changed my mainsail to a Hobie 16 sail: full battens, more roach. The boom was lowered to the cabin top and the mast was extended by about 4ft. To my surprise, the balance of the helm did not change! The centre of effort is lower with this configuration and the full battens may keep the big main more efficient.

A Hobie 14 sail may actually fit on the 'Piper's existing spars without modifications. The 14's sail has more roach than the 16. Try to find a small catamaran sailor and borrow his sail.

I don't think any of us are tensioning our stays to the original design. The spreaders may have been designed to be in tension: the mast should have pre-bend with the shrouds pulled in by the spreaders; not pushed out as you may typically see.

posted September 27, 2005 11:42 PM               

The main sail area is increased by 17%. The mast should be moved forward by 37mm (1.45 in).

posted September 28, 2005 10:00 AM               

Much can be done by shifting draft, etc. That's what we did with our new sail. Its' draft is much different than the original sail. Has a larger roach too.

The other feature you should also factor in is how it is shaped when reefed. With all this extra sail area you'll be reefing or depowering more often. You'll want to maintain the well designed shape when reefed in say 15 knots of wind.

Last weekend, with our main reefed in 15 to 20 knots of wind, we were much faster than a S-6.8. I think sail shape plays an important part here.

It's not the size of your sail, but the quality of its' shape and tune.

posted September 29, 2005 10:24 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Darcy:

Last weekend, with our main reefed in 15 to 20 knots of wind, we were much faster than a S-6.8. I think sail shape plays an important part here.

D'Arcy, Shortwave

---

posted September 29, 2005 11:01 AM               

We were flying the jib and a reefed main. It's a nice balanced combination. If it got windier we would probably furl the jib some.

posted September 30, 2005 12:29 PM            

Otherwise this is the only "drawing" that I have seen. Not very usefull;
http://sailquest.com/market/models/spipe.htm

Fred