Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/20/14 05:12 PM
Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Well I am finally getting around to restoring my Sandpiper 565 which I bought from someone on Manitoulin Island about 6 years ago. Below is a picture of my little Piper on the Ferry ride to the main land. I must say I am far from a handy man and will probably have lots of questions on how to restore. Not sure how long it will take to finish as I do not have much free time between work and other hobbies but I am going to give it a try.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/20/14 06:50 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I plan on restoring the hull using Interlux Brightside sapphire blue. From the different forums I have been on Brightside is normally used above the water line but can be used below if boat not always in water. I only plan on sailing for day trips then pulling boat out of the water. Has anybody used Brightside below water line? The other option is INTERLUX VC Performance Epoxy with Teflon. This paint can be used below the water line but as far as I can tell comes in white only. The other option is just using Brightside above water line and anti fouling paint below. Any tips from the experts out there.



Dat
(enthusiast)
08/20/14 09:36 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hello Mark S,
I used Interlux Brightside on the top deck and hull above the water line with good results. Below the water, first all the antifouling was removed which can be a pain. It took me about an hour to scrape, sand and curse just to get about a square foot of 3 layers of antifouling off. So I used a product called Soy Gel Paint Stripper. I deviated from the instructions by applying a liberal coat of the gel then covering it with saran wrap and left it until the next day. It only took me only a couple of hours to scrape the entire hull below the wl., then just went back and touched up any spots that were missed. Primed, final sanding and applied Interlux Fibreglass Bottomcoat, which has a good colour selection.
Then you can go sailing. Good luck with your project.


kenn
(old hand)
08/20/14 11:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Try buffing one small bad area of the hull with a wet piece of 1000 wet/dry sandpaper. You might find that the original colour can be brought out without too much effort. Might be cheaper and less work than painting. Our boat is that CL cream colour, and with some light sanding, rubbing compound, and finally polishing & waxing, it's come back quite a bit.

When stripping the build-up of ancient anti-fouling from our Sandpiper, I tried a number of things (scraping, strippers) and i got the best results with the least effort and toxicity by using a soy-based stripper (Franmar Soy-strip)


**DONOTDELETE**
()
08/21/14 07:25 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
She looks like a fun project! It's nice to see another restoration going on at the same time.
Camper


Bob
(addict)
08/21/14 08:07 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Please try Ken's advise. I have used those methods to retore three 70's era boats including my 79 Sandpiper. On a mutineer a few years ago I used toilet bowl cleaner (use gloves and a tarp) to remove the layer of crust left from dried out lake scum (usually what you find at the waterline). Collinite makes a terrific cleaner that removes oxidation from the gelcoat and their wax products are the best I have ever used. http://www.amazon.com/COLLINITE-LIQUID-F...ords=collinite.
These old Sandpipers were well built and there is a lot of material to work with so I would try restoration before paint.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/21/14 04:16 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I will give Soy Gel Paint Stripper a try. Good news for me is antifouling paint is so old I don't think it will take much to get off. My big challenge is going to be painting under boat when it is on the trailer. I will need to find a way to jack it up a bit when I get to that stage. I did not know about Interlux Fibreglass Bottomcoat for under water line, I will check it out.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/21/14 04:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I still think I want to go the paint route as I really dislike the hull color. The boat is in great shape overall as far as no water in the dark side but there is a 6ft section of the hull that has deep scratches I want to repair. Even if I liked the hull color I do not think I would be able to match paint.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/21/14 04:56 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

That brings me to my next question. To fill deep scratches I plan on using INTERLUX Watertite® Epoxy Filler.

My plan here is to lightly sand the damaged area and then wipe down with Interlux 216 thinner until clean. Fill in scratches with epoxy filler and after cured sand down until smooth. Clean area with 216 thinner and apply Interlux Brightside Pre-Kote Primer. Sand primer to remove any imperfections that are seen. At that point I would then tape the remainder of the hull and do an overall sanding and clean with 216 thinner. Then I am ready to paint the whole hull with primer. From what I have read use two coats of primer with sanding and cleaning until hull has no imperfections. At that point I would apply Interlux bright side.

I noticed there is something called INTERLUX 333 Brushing Liquid. I will need to see how this is used. I would guess there will be instructions included on the procedure to follow. But hey I'm a guy, who needs instructions \:\)

Any tips from anyone that has painted hull.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/22/14 04:59 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Bob,

I was contemplating painting the topside but maybe I will give COLLINITE LIQUID Fiberglass cleaner a try and see if I can restore fiberglass.


kenn
(old hand)
08/22/14 05:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S
My big challenge is going to be painting under boat when it is on the trailer. I will need to find a way to jack it up a bit when I get to that stage.


When I first stripped our boat's bottom, I borrowed a set of car wheel ramps from my buddy. With the trailer wheels on the ramps, the trailer was alot easier to get under.

This year, when I had to antifoul the bottom and keel, I used the ramps again, and then I used a $12 bottle-jack and alot of wood blocks to lift the trailer even higher, then blocked it up safely, removed the trailer wheels, and unbolted the rear of the leaf-springs so the axle swung out of the way and I could lower the keel fully, to clean and antifoul it.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/26/14 02:44 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I was planning on putting trailer on blocks to do a lot of hull work. Unfortunately not only do I have boat upgrades to perform but the trailer is in need of a new axle. What I really want to do is build a wooden support for the stern of the boat and then use neighbors backhoe with strap to lift bow so I can pull out trailer then support.

Seafari
(journeyman)
08/26/14 03:15 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here's what I did to get the boat off the trailer.
The beam under the bow is a safety. the weight is actually carried by the strap.




Seafari
(journeyman)
08/26/14 03:24 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

My trailer turned out to be a complete rebuild. Very little of it was salvageable.
Tires were split, tongue and cross members corroded thru, wheel bearings and hubs (both sides) failed on the tow home when I bought it, half of one fender still remaining, etc.





Seafari
(journeyman)
08/26/14 03:28 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Took a lot of work, time and money, but both trailer and boat turned out fabulous.



piperman
(old hand)
08/26/14 07:31 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Very nice! \:\)

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/26/14 08:59 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Very inspiring, gives me hope for my project. Both the boat and trailer look fantastic. I'm building a support for my boat now, will post some pictures when done.

kenn
(old hand)
08/27/14 09:53 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S
Unfortunately not only do I have boat upgrades to perform but the trailer is in need of a new axle.


Princess Auto has a 2000 lb axle with bearings and hubs on sale for about $100 this week


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/30/14 12:05 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the heads up Ken. I will need to measure width of springs on my trailer to ensure it fits.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/30/14 12:30 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Slowly getting all hardware stripped off. I removed all of the rub rails and think I will go with a rubber rub rail as replacement.





Seafari
(journeyman)
08/30/14 06:37 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

This looks pretty serious. Is it a complete overhaul?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/30/14 08:33 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Don't know when I will have the time but I want to restore the boat from top to bottom. This will also include the trailer which needs a new axle and two side bunks. At the same time I will give it a coat of paint so it will looks as good as the boat. For the Piper I want to remove all the hardware so I can do a proper paint job. There are a lot of deep gashes in the hull and fiberglass chips in the cockpit and cabin I also want to repair. The good news is everything appears to be dry and no flex in the floor so I don't think I will need to pull out any foam. The rub rails are in bad shape so I will replace them with rubber rails. For the inside cabin I want to pull out the old bucket and add enclosure for Porta-Potti. I will use epoxy and fiberglass cloth and at the same time paint the whole cabin. I also want to upgrade the table and at the same time grease the keel screw which I don't think has ever been done. I may not do it during this upgrade but I would like to add 2 extra sidestays as I had a bad experience where one came loose. Luckily I just stayed on the same tack and my wife was able to re-attach. I am also interested in a mast raising system to make putting the mast up and down much easier.
I suspect this will be a long project but I plan on doing a bit at a time. I just moved to the country a couple years ago so I now have more then enough room to do my projects and I don't have to worry about what the neighbors think \:\)


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/03/14 09:15 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I have finished temporary cradle and will be taking Sandpiper off trailer tomorrow. I can then repair trailer and start working on hull. I will post some pictures shortly.

Seafari
(journeyman)
09/03/14 09:32 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Prince Auto is THE place to get your trailer needs. They have everything but the replacement steel.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/03/14 10:04 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

You got it. Thats where I plan on buying on my trailer parts. overall it is in very good shape and just needs an axle which are always going on sale. Kenn mentioned they were on sale last week but did not have a chance to pick one up. I also need to get a tongue mount roller assembly for the bow. Other than that all that is required is a good paint job. I did the electrical work a few years back so that is all good. One neat thing I want to do is mount an ATV winch which will be part of the mast raising system I want to design. I am going to see what Kind of neat contraption I can come up with, for the fun of it \:\)

Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/06/14 08:33 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Well it took a bit of time and was a lot harder then I thought but I finally got the Sandpiper off my trailer. I did not jack it up high enough so I needed to remove the side bunks and wheel fenders. The most exciting part is when I put the keel down I saw it for the first time since buying the boat. It was in great shape and needs no repair which is awesome.















Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/06/14 09:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I am going to start sanding and repairing fiberglass shortly. I only have a palm vibrating sander but I am looking at buying a DeWalt 5 In Random Orbital Sander. I am doing this work in an enclosure so I plan on using a Asbestos and lead respirator which I already have. Will this respirator work with fiberglass?


Seafari
(journeyman)
09/07/14 08:44 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

That looks an awful lot like the trailer that came with my boat too. My trailer was missing the serial number/ data plate. The latch at the break-over was a real poor set-up. I simplified it with a much better spring loaded latch from Princess Auto.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/08/14 04:59 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

My trailer has a registration and date plate but can not read it now from all the rust. I remember when I went to register trailer with MTO I told them there was a plate but could not read, and they said information was required and there was nothing they could do. With advise of some friends I went back next day and with different person told them it was a home built and I was good. Go figure that one out I will look into the spring loaded latch.

**DONOTDELETE**
()
09/08/14 07:55 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Mark S
If your respirator works with asbestos, you will be fine with fiberglass. Make sure your respirator has a pre-filter attached. This is a thin (usually) filter that goes in front of the main filters. This is meant to be changed often and is there to keep the large particles from plugging up the main filters.


kenn
(old hand)
09/09/14 10:45 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S
I am going to start sanding and repairing fiberglass shortly. I only have a palm vibrating sander but I am looking at buying a DeWalt 5 In Random Orbital Sander.


On our boat, I've only used power-tools for sanding when doing a repair: a 4" grinder with a sanding disc to remove and taper around a hole or crack prior to repair, same and a palm sander to smooth out a hardened repair. Where I sanded to remove oxidation or scratches, I used wet paper (600 or 1000). Yes I lightly sanded the whole hull by hand. It wasn't that bad, gave me much more control, and by using wet sandpaper and rinsing frequently... no dust in the air.

Before you go deep into tool costs, get a piece of 1000 wet/dry paper (you'll find it with the auto-body stuff at Canadian Tire), get it wet and do some light test hand-sanding on a heavily-oxidized part of the hull. Sand, wipe, look, sand, wipe, look etc, and you should start seeing stronger colour.

I did buy an orbital polisher which I used to work some rubbing compound and to polish and buff.

Best article I know of for hull polishing.. I followed most of these steps. I didn't kill myself trying for a mirror finish, I just went for clean, smooth, decently reflective after wax.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/10/14 04:09 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the article on hull polishing. It is amazing how well oxidation was removed and how shinny hull looked after work was done. My deck is not in bad shape so I might look at removing oxidation and giving it a good shine. The hull is a different story and I am currently looking for links to repair deep scratches and prepare hull for painting. I looking into rolling and tipping paint but I think it will be much harder to do then the videos I have seen on Youtube.



kenn
(old hand)
09/10/14 10:01 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Dave V (CL) has official gelcoat for the Sandpiper 'white' which is actually sort of cream, so I've been able to make gelcoat repairs on our hull that are invisible. I don't know if he could match your blue, but you might want to drop him an email to ask.

If you're still intending to paint, you can fill the scratches with any colour gelcoat.

Guide to painting. Dat painted their hull and it looked great. I hear it's actually not that hard to roll & tip, and the paint is formulated to flow just enough that brushmarks disappear.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/11/14 06:03 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the guide to painting link Ken. I think I am going to paint the hull as I really don't like the hull color and it is in need of repair. My first task now is to remove the remainder of hardware and then remove antifouling paint using Aqua Strip Paint Stripper. My big issue right now is getting the time to do it. Oh well, need to work to make the money, to fix the boat.

Shortwave
(old hand)
09/12/14 12:22 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I've helped guys do their final sanding and to get a really really smooth finish with no little indentations they would glue the sandpiper on to a long piece of flexible thin plywood. It's a bit tedious, but you get a very smooth fair hull.

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/12/14 05:10 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Shortwave. Thanks for the tip I will give that a try. Everything I have read says that preparation...preparation...preparation is the most important part. I guess you could compare it to drywallling. You want to have a very smooth surface with no indentations. If anybody else has any tips or experiences to share I would appreciate it. I have been on the Interlux site looking at antifouling paint. Does anybody have any suggestions as I was surprised how many types there were available. Do to the fact there is the possibility I could have the boat in the water up to a few days at a time I want to use something. Generally the boat will be stored on trailer under a shelter. Due to the fact boat will be in and out of water I guess it should be mult season paint and something that will handle abrasion of going on/off of trailer.

Interlux Anitfouling Paint


Boulter
(member)
09/12/14 07:49 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S
Do to the fact there is the possibility I could have the boat in the water up to a few days at a time I want to use something. Generally the boat will be stored on trailer under a shelter. Due to the fact boat will be in and out of water I guess it should be mult season paint and something that will handle abrasion of going on/off of trailer.


My boat came with VC-17 which is now just dead weight because it becomes ineffective with hauling. I have sailed two seasons now with no effective bottom paint, and never tried to wash the bottom either. It has a light green patina +- the water line, so most of the cosmetic issues are not on the bottom and bottom paint would not help.

My plan long term is to "bottom paint" with a pressure washer. I dragged a gas one home from a garage sale for $25. Will I be lucky?

What is your reasoning for bottom paint? Racers use VC17 because it is slick with teflon in the formulation. If you want slick and dry docking, you will have to work it by hand (as above VC17 is incompatible with hauling). If cosmetics, I really think a power washer will be less money and work in the long term, but I defer to others with real experience.

Boulter


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/12/14 05:20 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I am going to go with interlux Micron Extra as it is good for boats that are hauled and relaunched on a regular basis. I think there will be times when I will leave boat in water for up to a week so I want the protection. But leaving boat out of the water for an extended period will be fine with Micron extra.


Micron® Technology
For boats that are going to be hauled and relaunched on a regular basis or hauled for seasonal storage consider using Micron antifouling paints. Micron antifouling paints can be hauled and relaunched without repainting since the biocides are chemically bound to the paint film and are only active when in the water. The longevity of these coatings is related to the thickness of the paint.


kenn
(old hand)
09/12/14 06:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Boulter
[My boat came with VC-17 which is now just dead weight because it becomes ineffective with hauling.


Can you expand on that? Starting this year, our boat's been in water all season, so I went with VC-17 before launch.. We did haul out for the Rendezvous, which means 2 in/outs. Where the rollers sit against the hull, the anti-fouling wore through from the travelling, but otherwise it remained pretty much intact. My understanding is that if you can see the VC-17 antifouling, it's still there and will still work.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/12/14 08:02 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hard or contact leaching antifouling paint dries to a hard but porous film that is packed with biocide. The biocide begins to leach out on contact with water to prevent fouling growth. This leaching is chemically designed to release biocide while the boat is in the water. Out of the water the paint film will oxidize and slow the release of the biocides to the point where there may not be enough biocide coming out of the paint film to maintain fouling protection. One of the main benefits of this type of antifouling is its resistance to abrasion and rubbing. This makes it ideal for fast powerboats, racing sailboats or boats where the owners have the bottoms scrubbed regularly.

Hard antifoulings from Interlux® include Ultra, Ultra-Kote®, Fiberglass Bottomkote®, Fiberglass Bottomkote® Aqua, Super KL, Epoxycop, VC® Offshore and Baltoplate®


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/12/14 08:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hard antifouling paint is supposed to be left in the water all season and painted the beginning of the next season. If for some reason boat is being hauled out and launched at a later date there are steps that should be followed (see below). Not sure how much effectiveness of antifouling will be reduced if process not followed.

Boats that have been launched but are in the water for less than 24 hours – Lightly pressure wash to remove surface contamination (salt and dirt etc.). Follow label instructions for maximum launch time from date of painting.

Boats that have been in the water for more than 24 hours but less than 30 days – Pressure wash immediately after hauling. No additional work is needed if the boat is relaunched with 72 hours. IF the boat will be out of the water for more than 72 hours will need to be sanded with 220-grit sandpaper immediately prior to relaunching.

Boats that have been in the water for more than 30 days – Pressure wash when hauled, sand with 80 or 100-grit sandpaper and recoat. Recoating is necessary even if the boat will be out of the water for less than 72 hours.


Boulter
(member)
09/12/14 10:11 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: kenn
 Originally Posted By: Boulter
[My boat came with VC-17 which is now just dead weight because it becomes ineffective with hauling.


Can you expand on that?


Actually, I cannot. It may well be that hauling over winter ruins it, but out for a few days like you are doing is fine. Anyone know for sure?

Boulter


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/12/14 11:38 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Like I said above I think if the boat is out of the water for a period of time antifouling starts to oxidize preventing release of chemical to prevent fouling growth. I must admit I find a lot of the stuff very far hard to believe and have a hard time believing all this sub particle information . But who am I to say I don't have a degree in Chemical Engineering. To tell you the truth I was so surprised there were so many types of antifouling paint.

kenn
(old hand)
09/13/14 12:38 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Ok, thanks all. Well, I'll know soon enough when we haulout in late October. Which is what today feels like \:\(

 Quote:
out of the water for more than 72 hours will need to be sanded with 220-grit sandpaper immediately prior to relaunching.


\:o

VC-17 is a fine, slippery coating. You could almost scrub it off with a coarse paper towel. So I can't imagine going at it with 220 paper.

Last year we got our slip in late August so the boat was in the water WITHOUT antifouling for 10 weeks. There was visible accumulation but it wasn't too nasty.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/13/14 01:38 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I ended up getting all this information from the Interlux website so I don't doubt what they are saying. But really not sure how much difference it would make if you just hauled the boat out and put it back in without doing anything. I was originally looking at VC-17 as it is very durable but as far as I can tell it only comes in white. I want to paint the hull with Brightside Polyurethane sapphire blue so the white undercoat will not match. I have also read that Brightside should only be used above the waterline but can be used below the waterline if not left in water for long periods of time.

Shortwave
(old hand)
09/14/14 01:26 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Our boat came with VC-17 so we were not about to change systems.
We generally keep Shortwave in the water all season and the paint works nicely. Just before the Rendezvous there is usually a small amount of scum that wipes off easily.
We re-paint very other year. We've got the copper colour which turns black when in the water. We also did the rudder with VC-17 because we leave it in the water. The only problem is because of the black colour it's hard to see weeds on the rudder. White would have been better.
If the boat didn't stay in the water as much I'd probably just stick with a waxed hull and clean it once in a while.
The other thing that helps is we're tied up at a dock where the depth rapidly drops off to about 70 feet and there is a slight current. Being moored in shallow (warmer) still water would cause stuff to grow faster on your hull.

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
09/14/14 06:35 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The quality and accuracy of the information being posted in the project threads is phenomenal. I'm thoroughly enjoying the dialogue, the reports, the photo essays.

Good stuff!

That's an interesting bit of trivia about bottom paint. I didn't know that. Does that imply that the Lake Ontario boats with the fresh paint jobs weeks before the spring launch are not going to enjoy the benefits of their work?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/14/14 09:19 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Well now that you mention it Tailpiper

Boats that have been painted and are past the maximum time before launch on the label but no more than 12 months past their launch date – Scuff sand with 220-grit sandpaper or a maroon Scotch-Brite pad prior to launch.

Boats painted more than 12 months prior to being launched – sand with 80 - 100 grit sandpaper and recoat prior to launch

Most season-to-season antifouling paint should be launched within 60 days of being painted. The boat should not be removed once launched as antifouling will start to oxidize once out of the water.

Here is a great article on antifouling


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/14/14 05:11 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Absolutely no time to work on my Sandpiper, so I said to myself you can at least turn the keel handle \:\) . For my Sandpiper it takes approximately 87.5 turns to put the keel down fully. Each turn of the handle lowers the keel about 1/4"

Turns- Keel Length
10- 2.5"
20- 5"
30- 7.5"
40- 10"
50- 12.5"
60- 15"
70- 17.5"
80- 20"
87.5- 22.25"

Now I just need to get the sander in my hand then the paint brush.......How it is looking now this maybe a project for next year, but you never know. Reading all these restoration post from Happy Camper and Seafari is giving me a complex \:\)


Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
10/17/14 05:09 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Excellent. Excellent information, Mark. This confirms for me that our Sandpipers have a 4 Thread Per Inch adjusting screw in our keels. (Little Wave is running some weird metric screw in his keel.).

The spec sheet for the Sandpiper shows 10" draught at KEEL UP and 2'11" (35") at KEEL DOWN. That's a difference of 25" or 100 turns of the 4 TPI keel screw. However, the majority of us get less than 100 turns.

Sandpipers have really short stubby keels. It's got to be hurting our performance.

Keel area is typically a percentage of the sail area. This may explain why Sandpipers are under-canvassed and need to reef early.

Thanks for the numbers Mark.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/27/15 06:50 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I am finally getting back to restoring my Sandpiper 565 after doing nothing for the last year

I have removed the old Porta Potty and have cut out an enclosure.

https://flickr.com/photos/136607752@N06/sets/72157660010350908


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/27/15 07:58 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here are some pictures in forum post











Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
10/28/15 05:38 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Mark. It's good to have you back.

Good pictures. Nice progress on the head project. I just realized from the photos that the original head (plastic cistern, with drain, enclosed in foam) would have made a good ice cooler, but not a very good toilet.

Sapphire's upgrade was to a Thetford 8 Litre. It fit perfectly. However, 8 Litres is fine for day sailing, and we have survived weekends with it, but we have also filled it to capacity with overuse. It's the flush water that overwhelms it.

I'm wondering what capacities other Sandpipers have installed and how long they have been able to sail between pump-outs? At the Rendezvous, one boat had 4 crew. I wonder how the head fared for the weekend?

Mark, keep the photos coming.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/28/15 07:38 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

This is a project that really needs to happen to the Minnow!
I am watching with much anticipation.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/28/15 04:39 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Once enclosure is completed I will install the Theford 260B Marine Potty which can be purchased from Amazon.ca. It has a height of 13" and will be approximately 2 inches above the enclosure. The cushions are 3" thick so I will make a thinner cushion for the top of Potty. With this Potty you get approximately 27 flushes.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/28/15 04:44 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Currently I am gluing thin conduit in cabin so I can run all my wiring for navigation lights and overhead lighting. All hardware has been stripped off boat and hopefully I will start an overall sanding shortly. Rub rails have been removed and will also need to be replaced. Wood was very brittle and just fell apart. I am thinking of maybe installing rubber rails but need to give it some more thought.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/28/15 06:18 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Good to be back. Hopefully I can make some progress this winter but work and kids are taking all my time. Yup your right old head was good for nothing expect maybe a cooler like you mentioned. Just knowing what it was used for I could not put my precious beer there. Your 8 Litre Theford any chance you can tell me the height of that one?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/28/15 06:25 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

For rub rails I was looking at TACO Flexible Vinyl Rub Rail Replacement Kits with Inserts.

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/taco--flex...024_724_001_004

I have really not had a chance to look at the different options. I see for the TACO Vinyl Rub Rails there are many different sizes.

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. I did see a post indicating not to even install them. I think I want to put something just to protect side of boat from rubbing up on dock.


Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
10/29/15 04:34 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S

Your 8 Litre Theford any chance you can tell me the height of that one?



11-1/2" high with the lid closed.

8 Litres is enough volume to hold all of the blood from a college cheerleader. And, it is that time of year again.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/29/15 04:54 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Haha....Scary..... I won't get as many flushes but that is a perfect height. Do you know the make and model of that unit?

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/29/15 07:38 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Mr. TP, you never cease to amaze!
LOL


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/01/15 06:00 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Tailpiper I found your Porta Potty on Amazon.com

Sanitation Equipment Passport Potty 8 Liter.

http://www.amazon.com/Sanitation-Equipme...eywords=Potty+8





Shortwave
(old hand)
11/03/15 09:24 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for posting this Mark. We're planning a porta pot renovation in the spring to secure our unit a little better. Our current installation is a bit rough with the unit sitting too high, which means the cushion over it sits a bit higher than all the others.
We've cruised for a week without coming ashore and not totally filled the pot, although some liquid waste is put overboard in a bucket.

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/06/15 03:47 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

No problems Shortwave. Once I finish it up and do the painting I will post some more pictures. The easiest way to do the install is cut out the fiber glass and remove all the old foam. I then took the dimensions and built the box making it a bit higher. I put the finished box in place and added some supports on the bottom of the box to ensure it was level. Once level and in place I took a marker and outlined the top of the box for the final cut. Once the top of the box was level with fiberglass I removed it and then used spray foam to fill in any voids and then inserted box. I added a large concrete block just in case the foam started lifting up the box. Once secure I then cut out opening at front and framed with wood. Then just used fiberglass tape and epoxy to finish everything off.

Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
11/07/15 04:43 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Nice!

The workmanship looks great. Good stuff. And, thanks for the description of the work details. That's informative, sharing information.

Hey Mark, open a new 'head thread' and we'll all post photos of our toilet upgrades. This topic is always current.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/08/15 07:44 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

One of the storage lockers in the cabin needs some fiberglass work. I must admit I have taken on this Sandpiper restore and really know nothing about fiberglass work. Can I get some comments on the best way to repair the locker.



Would it be best to scrape away as much of the loose fiberglass and then sand. I would then use Interlux Epoxy Filler? Or would it be better to use fiberglass and cloth?



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/09/15 11:56 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Is that gel-coat in the lockers? Mine is bare fiberglass. I wonder if that is just flaking off paint that a previous owner painted in there. I don't know enough about the Piper history, maybe the group has better info.

**DONOTDELETE**
()
11/09/15 01:37 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Mark start by taking a good scraper to get rid of the loose stuff hell you can even take a wood chisle to her.
You want to rough up the old glass so you can form a mechanical bond with the new glass. Use like a 60 grit sandpaper.
Snap and post another photo so we can see. Thanks


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/09/15 04:03 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks FreeBird. I will give that a try and post more pictures once done.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/01/15 03:02 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The weather was warmer today so I decided to take off the motor mount. When I was inside the stern compartment to remove the motor mount bolts I noticed the forward compartment wall was very soft. I said to myself do I really want to go there and have a trip to the dark side? Originally I was planing on cutting a round access hatch from inside the cabin but maybe going in from the stern compartment is better? Next thing you know I have a hammer and chisel in hand and my cutting dremel tool. After a couple hours here is where I am at.





















Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/01/15 03:05 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I was surprised once I removed the foam I found the white foam blocks. I though the whole boat would have been done with sprayed foam. I don't see any other access point so I don't know who would I have put that foam in place.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/01/15 03:06 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The question now is what should I fill the compartment with? Any recommendations?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/01/15 03:15 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

From what I can tell reading the other posts to the dark side blue insulating foam has been used. Do you all think that would be the way to go?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/01/15 03:25 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The other issue now is how am I going to patch up the big hole I made? Is it even worth it should I just leave it open? The other option is maybe gluing to pieces of plywood in place and leaving the middle section open?



Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/01/15 04:14 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Come to think about I might just make a new forward bulhead out of wood and then glue four 2x4 (in blue) to the fiber glass. I can then insert all the foam and then screw bulkhead in place. If I ever want to check the foam I can then just remove the bulkhead if needed. It may not be finished perfectly but it is hidden and nobody will see it.

I would love to get your guys opinion if you have any other great ideas.



Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
12/03/15 07:18 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Mark, incredible photos. Seeing under the cockpit with the rear bulkhead removed is like suddenly having Superman x-ray vision. The options are infinite.

I do not believe the bulkhead was structural. Its purpose was to contain the buoyancy material. So the preliminary questions are: is this the right material? Is there enough of it to float a Sandpiper, all its gear, and her crew? Now that the lazarette is stripped, is there a better configuration?

This warrants some serious discussion. Give the forum some time to respond. This is exciting!


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 11:01 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

There is definitely loads of room accessing area from the lazarette. It was very easy to remove old foam out and then put in something new. Great having opening when inside lazarette so I can stick my feet into open area to turn around. LOL. The cockpit floor is in great shape and there is no flex even without foam. The old foam and cavity are very dry and look to be in great shape. I was nervous when I originally removed bulkhead as I did not know what I was going to find. My first thought was to leave it in place and try to reinforce it but it was just too soft. Now that bulkhead is removed I am very happy with results and have load of room to work with. I suspect originally lazarette was full of water and over time softened the bulhead and slowly leaked under cockpit floor. Luckily I don't think there was much water in cockpit or under the floor because it is in great shape.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 11:46 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I know I can buy 2 part Urethane expanding foam which I would basically mix and start pouring into cavity. i could start doing that in sections especially under the cabin area where the space is tighter. Personally I think it will be very messy and a real pain to do, not to mention the price. I would much rather just use the blue foam and get in as much as I can. I guess the floatation won't be as good but seems a lot easier to do.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 03:09 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Until we can have the discussion on what to fill the void with I decided to make a bulk head that can be removed if needed.

I mounted 2 wooden supported beams on each side of bulkhead fastened to cabin enclosure using screws. You can see the screw heads inside the cabin but they are so far under you won't notice them.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 03:18 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I then made 3 separate bulk heads. One for the right side, one for the left side, and one for the middle which can be easily removed. It took forever getting the cuts to the shape of the hull. I used paper for a ruff guide then transferred to cardboard cutout and finally wood. Needless to say it was a pain in the butt.













Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 03:27 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

On each side of the bulkhead I plan on mounting a shelf. One shelf will be for the battery and the other shelf will be for the motor gas tank. I will just use straps to keep them in place. I can then use the rest of the lazarette for general storage.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 03:36 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Over the winter I will fill in all the screw holes and paint the bulkhead. I really know nothing about boat repair and fiberglass but if I wanted to cover the bulkhead before painting would I use epoxy? From what I am reading on the internet polyester resin is not a good choice for waterproofing plywood. Either that or can I just go ahead and paint without using epoxy?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 04:57 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

This guy on YouTube used pink foam from Home Depot and expanding foam and it looks like it plays good together. Expanding foam really bonded to pink foam. Maybe I could use a combination of both. In the hard to get places pour in some expanding foam and then ram in a piece of pink foam. For the curvature of boat pour in some expanding foam and then place a piece of pink foam. Once I have a flat surface keep stacking the pink foam. Finally pour in expanding foam to fill in the voids. Once almost full put bulk heads in place and spray in some high density foam you can buy from Home Depot in a can. You get the idea......Pink foam for the majority of the area and expanding foam to fill the voids.

http://youtu.be/9D41VhUdi3c


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 05:01 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Part two of the video......

http://youtu.be/qs2NtVWaOV4


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 08:11 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Went to Home Depot tonight. The Pink foam sheets were a lot more money than I thought.

24x96x1 is $16.00

How many sheets do you think to fill compartment?




Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 08:15 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

There is a spray foam kit for $327.00



Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 08:19 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

West Marine sells Evercoat Pour Foam 2 gallon set for $199.00. I would think s would be more than enough to fill enclosure.

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/evercoat--pour-foam-4-lb-2-gallon-set--13386743


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 08:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

West Marine also sells Evercoat Two-Part Pour Foam Kit 2 Quarts for $119.00. Would that be enough foam to fill compartment? Maybe this foam in combination with pink foam sheets.

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/evercoat--two-part-pour-foam-kit-2-quarts--314080


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/03/15 11:45 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here is what I figured out for the Evercoat 2 gallon kit.

This kit has a density of 4Ib and will expand a total of 15x

4Ib density means a foam block 12"x12"x12" (1 cubic ft) will weigh a total of 4Ib. This 1 cubic foot piece of foam will have a floatation weight of approximately 58Ib.

Technically from this 2 gallon kit you should be able to fill an area that is 4 cubic ft. This means the floatation will be approximately 232ib.

I have not worked with expanding foam before but I figure 2 gallons of this stuff must fill a cavity more than 4 cubic feet. Am I way off base here?

I will measure the opening I need to fill and will post result tomorrow.








Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/04/15 12:14 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I also noticed that West Marine also sells a 2Ib density for the same price. The foam will not be as strong and less dense but floatation numbers are at 60Ib per cubic foot. The good news is foam expands 30x which means it will fill a cavity 8 cubic feet. To me this means more bang for the buck. My cockpit floor is in good shape so I don't think I need foam that is too dense.

The Sandpiper 565 weights approximately 1200Ib. From this 2 gallon kit the floatation will be approximately 480Ib. Technically then 5 gallons of this stuff should be able to float a sandpiper.

I know these are simple calculations but I am not a mathematician. There would be many variables to take into account if sandpiper filled up with water due to a breached hull.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/04/15 04:07 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I did some measurements today of the dark side.

29" deep
59" wide
14" high
That is 23,954 cubic inches

I then measured the cabin berths which are:

29" deep
19" wide
8" high

There are a total of two berths so that is 8,816 cubic inches that will not need to be filled.

23,954- 8,816 is a total of 15,138 cubic inches.

Due to the fact the hull is not a rectangle and has a curvature I took 75% of this value which is 11,353 cubic inches.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/04/15 04:10 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The pink foam sheets I am looking at are 24"x96"x1" which is 2304 cubic inches. This means it will take approximately 5 sheets to fill area.

5 sheets at $16.00 a sheet is $80.00


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/04/15 04:19 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I did some searches on the Internet and for the 2Ib expanding foam, one ounce of mixed foam will fill an area of 30 cubic inches.

2 gallons of mixed foam is 256 fluid ounces which should fill an area of 7,680 cubic inches. From what I have seen on YouTube that number seems to be a bit low.

From West Marine you can get a 2 gallon kit of expanding foam for $199.00

This is definitely a more expensive way to go over foam so I think I will do a combination of foam and pink sheets.

What does everyone think???


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/04/15 11:45 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Working on some wiring as well. I think somebody on this forum installed some LED string lights, I might look at that option.









Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
12/06/15 03:40 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Just a quick note. If the laz bulkhead is not watertight after the project, water will collect in the bilge. You will need acess to the lowest point. Let that rattle around in the back of your noggin while doing electrical.

Would anyone consider a horizontal flat bottomed laz bulkhead?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/06/15 04:33 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Ya I was thinking about that when I started cutting it out. In the end the wood was just too rotten so I went for it. I think I could probably seal the bulkhead I have in place now with caulking if needed. Hopefully not much water will get in the laz if I keep it covered. Boat is not in the water all the time and is stored under a shelter when not in use. The other option is to make the bulkhead more permanent and cloth and epoxy it back in place. Did not really want to do that as I wanted access all the time.

Not sure what you mean by a horizontal flat bottomed laz bulkhead. Do you mean put a subfloor in place so it is flat?

What would you do in this case? Put the foam back in place and make a new permanent water tight bulkhead.

I may have caused more harm than good as I admit I am not that handy when it comes to fiberglass repair.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/06/15 05:38 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I think it might be better to make the bulkhead water tight once I put all the foam back in place. I can take the center portion of the bulkhead I made and add an access hatch.

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/t-h-marine--designer-series-access-hatches--P015752256

I can then put the three piece bulkhead back in place and use cloth and epoxy for permanent repair. I still think I will leave it recessed from the exsisting bulkhead so I can add the shelf I was talking about. It is going to be a big job but maybe that is the best way to go.

Any thoughts?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/06/15 07:05 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

What does everybody think of the floatation numbers for the poured foam compared to the pink or blue insulation sheets? I think density wise you would be able to put in a lot more poured foam compared to the sheets. Do you think the extra cost for the poured foam is worth the money?

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
12/07/15 01:03 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
Love the engineered approach to the buoyancy issue. Don't forget, there is still a bunch of foam in the boat to keep her buoyant, this compartment doesn't need to do all the work.
After having gone through this(de-foaming my Piper of old rotten water logged foam), I would cast my vote for any type of foam that could easily be removed at a later date.
It seams the bulkhead you removed is non-structural; given that, I would not really try to seal it back up again.
As someone stated, it will only be necessary to hold the foam in place.
It might be worth checking on the price of blue or pink foam that is thicker (maybe 2"), it might be less expensive per cubic inch!
I think there are many ways to complete the job you are doing, however, if I were where you are now, I would cut up a bunch of pink or blue foam and fill as much of the cavity as possible.
I would then seal the plywood bulkheads you made with epoxy. Just brush on a couple of coats, no glass cloth necessary. Sand in between the coats, epoxy doesn't stick well to itself once cured.
Be sure to epoxy coat the inside of the screw holes as well, water will soak in there.
After epoxy encapsulation, I would sand and paint a color of your choice. Screw them in place and you will be in good shape.
You can always remove the bulkhead for a quick inspection.
40 years from now, the next owner will want to give you a big hug for constructing a serviceable buoyancy solution.
Love the lighting!


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/07/15 04:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks Happy Camper appreciate the feedback. Good point about having the foam easily removable. I would have great access through the bulkhead but if using expanding foam it would be a pain to remove if it ever became saturated with water again.

Does anybody leave their boat in the water for the season? Do you find you get any water in the Lazarette even with the cover being in place?

I definitely want to seal the plywood bulkheads with epoxy and paint as Happy Camper suggested but should I worry about water seeping under the bulkhead once in place. Is there some way to maybe seal the bottom of bulkhead up a few inches for any standing water that might get into Laz? I guess I could technically use some caulking as it will be easy to remove if I ever need to remove bulkhead.
like I said not a big deal as my boat is primarily a day sailor and any time other than that it is in a shelter.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/07/15 04:32 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hopefully the foam in the rest of the boat is O.K. Has anybody added access hatches in any other part of the boat. What about Storage lockers in the cabin?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/07/15 07:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here is an access hatch the owner before me installed. It's just as your entering into cabin in front of keel.



**DONOTDELETE**
()
12/08/15 04:11 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Things are a bit messed up around the forum Mark, the " Mod Guy " has gone sailing and the " Sailing Guy " has been left with the Kling-on's and dead forum.

Love the work you are doing to your Piper, nice idea on running the wires through tubing it keeps the inside of the cabin neat and tidy nothing to get snaged on.

Keep up the good work...


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
12/08/15 09:33 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Mark,
I "LOVE" access ports. I added 6 of them to my piper. I joke about them a bit; "I spent more money on ports than I did for the whole boat!"
This is a link to the work I did digging out the foam and adding the access ports. I like the idea of these being left open during storage, (good airflow).
You are correct, if water gets into the laz, its gong under the cockpit sole. The good news is it's a trailer boat and you can simply lift the tongue of the trailer and the water will run to the back. Vacuum it out and open the access ports to dry out the compartment and you should be good.
That is the advantage of the blue, or pink foam over the white EPS foam used in the OE design: it wont absorb water!
Here is a link to the thread I started when I went to the dark side and dug out all my foam. I knew mine was wet and I had no choice (in my mind anyway) I have not filled the compartment with anything yet. It is just a closed up compartment. Now that probably isn't good, but I am still a bit spooked about not being able to get at any water that may be trapped in there. Have a look at the pics and you will see what I am talking about!

I think the foam filled area under the step, just behind the keel box is the low point of the boat when it is sitting in the water. I am planning on installing an auto switched bilge pump under this access port before I put the boat in the water next spring. I am planning on leaving her in the water all summer next season, so an auto pump will be pretty important. That being said, she doesn't leak a drop! The only water that gets in is from the top side! (like if some numb-skull leaves the gangway open!, Just sayin!)

http://www.vaxxine.com/clsailboats/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=13684#Post13684


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
12/08/15 09:47 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

A couple of shots of the access ports I installed!
Hope this helps.









Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/08/15 04:31 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the pictures they are fantastic. Your Piper is in awesome shape, it is obvious you have spent a lot of time fixing her up. It would be great to see pictures when you install pump and how you will drain water out of boat. What is the access panel under the step, I see wires.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/08/15 05:13 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Happy Camper what did you use to paint the cabin of the boat. Did you go all out and use something like Interlux brightside or is there another option?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/08/15 05:18 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

LOL FreeBird. The forum seemed a bit dead for awhile but Happy Camper is here now. Things are starting to pick up.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/08/15 05:36 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I just saw your post in regards to Rustoleum Topside paint. Great detail on how to apply paint.

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
12/09/15 11:08 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Yep, Rustoleum was the choice. It was very easy to use and seems great so far. I'm only one year in, so time will tell, but I think it is all you would need for interior stuff for sure.
It was sure nice to have a brand new, clean, and not smelly interior. My wife will even go in there now! She would only look in from the gangway before the refit!
The little access panel was in there when I got the boat. It looks like it was factory original. All the interior wiring goes to this "junction box" (I don't know what else to call it!). I bought a switch panel with 4 or 5 switches (can't remember, I will have to check to be sure). I mounted the switch panel to a block of wood, epoxied and varnished the wood, and I mounted this assembly to the fiberglass "junction box" with a SS hinge on one side, and a couple of screws on the other. The idea is to run all the wires to the junction box, make the electrical connections in there, and then exit the junction box directly to the switches. I can access the junction box by removing a couple of screws and swinging the wood panel open like a little door. I will see if I can find a pic or two, I may not have taken any. If that's the case, it will be spring before I can get in there to take another shot, it's too nicely covered to disturb.


**DONOTDELETE**
()
12/09/15 03:02 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I think your fuse box is a mod there Mr.HC its the only one I have seen. Excellent use of space.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/09/15 04:58 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

How are you running the wires to your navigation lights and overhead cabin lighting? Originally I was going to cloth and epoxy the wire in place. In the end I just ran tubing and installed the wires that way in the event I need to remove or add wire.

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
12/10/15 08:41 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the info FreeBird, I didn't know that wasn't OE. The PO did a pretty good job installing that part.

Sorry for the temporary absence, I have been traveling for work and then for a little vacation to New Mexico to visit my son, but now I can settle back into the winter snowy months here in Michigan. Bring on the boat projects! LOL

As far as running wires, I haven't run any additional wires yet Mark, but the wire that is in the boat is white and is run under pieces of tape that appear to be cloth of some sort that is bonded to the gel-coat.
It is all white to match the gel-coat so it looks pretty integrated. As you can see, the "tapes" don't cover the wires for the full length.
The first pic is from before I finished the interior, but it shows the tapes and wire pretty well. (with the exception of the old piece of telephone wire someone had run. Oh if old boats could tell us their stories!)
I will be re-doing all the wiring in the spring, It will be good to hear what others have done to make wire routing look nice.





Boulter
(member)
12/15/15 08:55 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hello Gang:

I have some thoughts on the whole foam/bilge sealing thing. Don't know if my thoughts are the truth but here they are anyhow ...

First, I recall pulling the plugs on my "sealed" seating chambers in an Albacore. I head escaping air, which implies a pressure differential, which also implies that the chambers were sealed. I also saw water pour out, not much mind you, which implies not sealed. Even not much water in an area with any wood about will rot out the wood eventually. So based on this observation, I do not believe that any chamber will be absolutely sealed and water tight in the long term. So one must then deal with the reality of water being inside, and what to do about it.

If a chamber has zero wood or other things that can rot, and is mostly foamed, then one could stay stuff a few pounds of water and consider the matter closed, literally.

If a significant weight of water could accumulate, or if there are materials subject to rot around, you would probably want a drain plug to drain every time back on the trailer or at the end of the season.

Now I will address the issue of foam.

The first question I would have is has anyone actually dumped a Sandpiper or otherwise down flooded the cabin? If with the keel down, a Sandpiper has about the same risk in this regard as a keel boat, and keel boats are not buoyant, I would argue it would be reasonable to not replace the foam.

The above is especially true if you have made efforts to seal the chambers, such that they are actually short term sealed, that is would take days, weeks, months to fill with water. If this is the case, then the foam is redundant.

Frankly, I think efforts to make sure you don't take on water is both more prudent and maybe even cost effective given the cost of foam. So I would concentrate on a means of sealing and dogging down the lazarette cover and sealing and locking in place the lower companionway board when required in snotty conditions.

Boulter


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
12/15/15 01:50 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Boulter,
That is the path I have taken so far.
The compartment under my cockpit sole has deck plates installed that basically seal Minnows compartments. My thought was similar to your line of reasoning, it would take quite some time for that compartment to fill up with water unless she were holed.
I have owned many boats over the past 40+ years, and have never holed one (Although this is my first sail boat!)
I know it can happen, but if she goes down, I bet technology is such that I can find her again as well. I am sure adding foam is probably a good (and safe!) thing to do, but I haven't been able to convince myself yet.
After watching the Piper video of Dennis purposely tipping Sapphire over and seeing that she floats like a cork, I am pretty confident loss due to sinking is a fairly remote possibility.
By the way, anyone who sails a Piper should see this video!
You will become WAY more confident in the abilities of our little boats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxC-dnTNYG8

I am way more worried about her sinking in her slip while I'm not at the marina. If that happens, I at least know right where to find her! \:\)
I don't think it would make much difference in the clean up if she is floating very close to the surface, or sitting on the bottom! I think she will be a big mess no matter what at that point.


Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
12/18/15 09:47 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Merry Christmas!

Great discussions about buoyancy and all things below the waterline (at displacement and flooded).

Crystal and I are in the Nassau airport. We are coming home for Christmas. I will be back on line in a couple of days.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/18/15 07:38 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I have descided I am just going to use foam sheets and put in as much as I can in cavity. I will then use removable bulk head I made to keep it all in place. Hopefully with the Laz cover in place I will not have any water issues. If for some reason I do get some water in laz and it seeps past bulkhead, when boat back on trailer just crank up bow and bail.

Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
12/22/15 06:55 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

That sounds like a plan, Mark. It's good engineering if you can identify a process for getting the water out of the bilge. Keep us posted on your progress. I've enjoyed the calculations and feasibility decisions.

Somehow, somewhere, I have a copy of a US Coast Guard document about the flotation requirements for recreational boats. In the introduction, it mentions that sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats need not comply. Wow, that's curious. So, we don't actually need to have flotation in our boats? I wonder if the rules are different in Canada. The CG document is dated November 2003.

Has anyone considered installing flotation in the high/dry spots? For example, like under the cockpit coaming? That's a lot of wasted volume.



Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
12/23/15 05:22 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here is a diagram from the Coast Guard document. It resembles the flotation scheme for a Sandpiper:







 Originally Posted By: Tailpiper

Has anyone considered installing flotation in the high/dry spots? For example, like under the cockpit coaming? That's a lot of wasted volume.



Here is a second diagram from the Coast Guard document. It shows a scheme that would put some flotation in the gunwales. Now that's interesting.






The next time I have the cover off my inboard/outboard, I want to see where this massive amount of flotation for the propulsion equipment is hiding.


Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
12/24/15 06:42 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Happy Camper

Yep, Rustoleum was the choice. It was very easy to use and seems great so far. I'm only one year in, so time will tell, but I think it is all you would need for interior stuff for sure.




There is a yacht paint that dries to a textured finish. Duchess II (the orange boat) has it in her cabin. I was impressed with the way it covered and camouflaged the factory glasswork inside the cabin. It would be perfect for my Duplo-Boat once the projects are completed.

After spending some time looking for it on-line, I can't find it. I've seen it on the shelf at Boater's World in Peterborough. It was a popular brand name, but it doesn't show in a Google search. Lots of non-skid coatings come up.

Maybe someone else knows this product.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/24/15 09:21 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I need to get my butt in gear in the New Year. Had a bad wind storm and there was damage to my boat shelter cover. All has been repaired so I'm ready to go again. Starting to get too cold for painting so I think I will start scrapping out and sanding damage fiberglass in cabin storage lockers. I will then be ready to sand the entire boat from top to bottom. I have my sander, overalls, googles, and filter mask ready to go. I still need to try and remove wooden motor bracket. Bolts are stuck in place and I am unable to remove them. I might try and take a blow torch to the to loosen them up a bit.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/24/15 09:23 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I also need to sand and varnish all the wood trimming and build a new cabin table. Lots of work but just need to make the time.

kenn
(old hand)
02/01/16 10:48 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Mark,

When I redid our under-cockpit area (same way as you - from the lazz), I took some pains to waterproof the forward bulkhead you can see under there. To do that I made a cardboard template of that bulkhead (trial and error because it's hard to reach in there), then on the bench I made a "skin" of a couple of layers of fiberglass and epoxy, when cured I cut it to the template, then I slathered thickened epoxy on the bulkhead and attached this premade skin, and finished that with more epoxy fillet.

Then I filled the whole area with cut cheets of the 2" blue styrofoam (took about $90 worth I think).

To replace the removed bulkhead, I made a cardboard template again, then cut some 3/8" marine plywood (one piece). I put one layer of fiberglass cloth and epoxy on the board, and when cured, I screwed that in place, then lay on fiberglass strips and epoxy to fillet and seal up that area.

My thinking was that if the area was filled with long-lasting waterproof foam, then sealed well with waterproof bulkheads, it wouldn't be a problem again (in my lifetime anyway). For paranoia's sake though, I did glass in a bit of hose so that area could be pumped out if ever required.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
02/05/16 07:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the information Ken. I am definitely going to fill up the area under the cockpit floor with blue styrofoam. I'm just now 100% sure if I am going to permanently seal the bulkhead in the event I ever need access again. my sandpiper is only used as a day sailor and I keep the boat under a shelter when not on in use. I don't see and reason why I would ever get water in Laz area to be concerned with. I like your idea of using a bit of hose in the event you need to pump out area if I do descide to seal. I'm not rushing into a decision will give it some more thought.

Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
02/06/16 06:36 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: kenn

. . . I did glass in a bit of hose so that area could be pumped out if ever required.



Ken, I didn't pick up on this detail. Absolutely brilliant! I believe it's a good solution. Yes, seal the flotation chamber, but provide a pump-out hose (that can be solidly capped).


Valhallabreeze
(enthusiast)
02/07/16 12:28 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Can't believe how busy the forum is here. I had to move my shop, went from 3500' to 6800'. Been an 8 month ordeal. Not done! Only got 3 hours of sailing in last year. No fun!.

With that said I have a little bit of work that needs to be done on the Valhalla Breeze.(bow eye trying to pull through the hull) Going to try and get that done this week. I see a good weekend coming Temp wise in two weeks. Going to try to be the first one on the water this year. Got a new rig to pull the boat with so I have motorhome payments now.Need to get a lot of use out both the boat and motorhome.


Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
02/08/16 05:49 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Sid. It's good to hear from you, my friend.

Sailing in 2 weeks? You have to make it happen. Bob is going in 4 and the Hamilton sailors are probably right behind Bob. Post photos. Maybe we should fly Michel to your 6800-foot location and have him video the event.

Where is the new shop?


Valhallabreeze
(enthusiast)
02/11/16 11:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Not far from the old one. I plan on sailing on Lake Pueblo. 2.5 hours South. Still looks to be a good weekend. Getting excited!

Valhallabreeze
(enthusiast)
02/18/16 01:46 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

All loaded up, leaving for Lake Pueblo in the morning. Temperature supposed to be in the 70s. And suppose to be windy.

Tailpiper
(Pooh-Bah)
02/18/16 06:29 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

That is incredible! Good stuff. The right stuff!

Post some photos and give us the details Sunday night. There's going to be 29 stowaways on that boat with you.

May the force be with you, Sid.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
02/18/16 07:39 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

When I rolled out of bed this morning and looked at the thermometer, it read -18C
"Gettin out of Dodge" for a bit of winter relief is an awesome thing!
Enjoy the trip.


Valhallabreeze
(enthusiast)
02/18/16 08:07 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

We are excited. Leave in a couple of hours. Stowaways welcome

Valhallabreeze
(enthusiast)
02/19/16 09:04 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

It was so windy,up to 70 mph gusts,we decided not to put the boat in the water. Hoping if calms down enough to sail today.So far it's not happening. I Kea sign was damaged. Jeep was blown onto its side.

Shortwave
(old hand)
02/19/16 11:32 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Checking my Facebook posts and Sid has made it out sailing.

[img]http://[/img]

They are on Lake Pueblo.
Let the sailing season begin!!

D'Arcy, Shortwave


**DONOTDELETE**
()
02/20/16 07:48 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Shortwave
Checking my Facebook posts and Sid has made it out sailing.
They are on Lake Pueblo.
Let the sailing season begin!!

D'Arcy, Shortwave


The Rocky Mountain Mile High Club?
Sailing season has begun? Pass the Bong I will have some of that DD \:D


Dave G
(journeyman)
02/20/16 09:18 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

YAYS go to Sid

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
07/12/16 12:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I remember earlier in this thread we were chatting about buoyancy; I think I have stumbled into a possible solution and its pretty cheap as well.
I took a bunch of disposable water bottles, rinsed and dried them, replaced the caps and I am now "storing" them in my bilge!
Just pop the 8" deck plate and drop em in till the bilge is full.
Easily removable if service is needed and they are nice and quiet in there too.
I can reach in and push them out of the way to see if there is ever any water in the bilge.
So far, bone dry. Even after being in the water all summer.
I must have done a pretty good job with my deck fitting and window re-bedding projects.



Shortwave
(old hand)
07/12/16 10:38 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Given that North Americans throw away literally billions of single-use plastic bottles a year, this seems like a mighty fine idea. Can't think that they'd ever all fail at once.
Cool idea.

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
07/13/16 08:01 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

We normally don't buy these things, however, my daughter got married a couple of weeks ago and we had lots of guests and lots of traveling to do, so my wife stocked up.
Seeing all those bottles in the recycle bin is what gave me the idea.
I figured even if holed, it would only cut up a few of them.
My bottles are all gone, now I have friends bringing me their empties.
Still a couple more compartments to fill!
I thought about the standard 2 liter bottles, but they are pretty heavy. (Making you proud Sandpaper!)
Besides, in Michigan, they would cost $.10 each!
Woof.


**DONOTDELETE**
()
07/13/16 08:18 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Omg I remember that thread... we were only goof'n off HC, I think pool noodles and ping pong balls also came up.
I think I also suggested inflating a life-raft inside the cabin if you where going down \:D

All bad ideas... really \:\)


Sandpaper
(addict)
08/01/16 05:58 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral




Happy, this is a great idea. I've been pondering your solution for quite a while now, and I can't come up with anything better.

It's unfortunate that the empty bottles couldn't have a 2nd function to hyper-justify their presence on the boat. It's too bad they weren't miniature dock fenders, or storage bunkers for 'AAA' batteries, or receptacles for loose pocket change. You could 1/8-fill each with emergency ethanol-free gasoline, or 18-year old Scotch, or pre-load each with an S.O.S. note in a bottle . . .


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
08/03/16 08:06 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

My favorite part is that they can easily be removed if I need access to the bilge again someday. No more digging out stinky nasty foam!.
Maybe the foam added some element of structure to the hull, but I sure cant tell any difference except my boat is at least a hundred pounds lighter.
Hmmm. a water balasted Piper? Naaaah.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/12/16 08:59 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Great all this talk of water bottles has me thinking about working on the boat again. Been working non-stop but finally have a couple weeks holidays. I need to fill the cavity under the cabin and here is the foam available at Home Depot. The first foam is more denser used for insulation. The second one in more granular and not as dense. The last one is more granular but seemed to have some sort of protective top coating on it. So far I would think the best foam is the one used for insulation as it won't soak up as much water if wet.

The other option is going for the bottles if I drink lots of water. I am just finishing the bulkhead and have ordered the epoxy and cloth to finish it off. I am also going to add a access hatch in the event I need to remove any water.

What does everyone think?







Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/12/16 09:10 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I was thinking of going with the denser foam so I can can provide extra support for the cockpit floor. I will stack the foam as much as I can and for any small gap between foam and floor use the spray foam.

kenn
(old hand)
08/12/16 10:18 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S
I was thinking of going with the denser foam so I can can provide extra support for the cockpit floor. I will stack the foam as much as I can and for any small gap between foam and floor use the spray foam.


I used Styrofoam SM - the blue stuff - because it's used for in-ground foundation insulation, so it can withstand water. Don't use the white stuff; it's about the same as the rotten stuff you pulled out.

Regarding the cockpit floor - if it's soft or bouncy, try to repair it properly from underside before putting in the foam. I was able to repair a couple of delaminated spots on ours, and glass some extra plywood bracing to the underside.

i don't think the foam can be relied upon for long-term structural support.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/12/16 11:07 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Kenn. The cockpit floor is very sturdy and does not need to be restored. The foam will not be providing any sort of structural support. I will go with the styrofoam 5M, thanks for the advice. Come to think of it when I did pull the old foam out it did look like the less dense stuff.

Pipe Dream
(member)
08/13/16 04:38 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Mark, For your view enjoyment, Here is a link detailing my adventures from the "Dark Side" High density foam is the way to go.

http://www.vaxxine.com/clsailboats/ubbth...r=1008#Post1008


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/14/16 12:19 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the link Lee. I have purchased the blue high density foam and also some spray foam to fill in any extra voids. I will post some picture along the way. Just finishing the bulk head now before filing the "Dark Side" LOL.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/18/16 05:00 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I was finally able to spend a bit of time working on the boat. Foam and bulkhead has now been installed. Next step is to epoxy fillet all the seams and epoxy the cloth onto the the bulkhead. Should be very interesting and maybe a bit messy as I am working in an enclosed area. I am going to tack the precut cloth in place before I start rolling on the Expoy. Never really done anything like this before but spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos 😀. For the foam I figured I would need about 6 sheets to fill the dark side, but in the end I used 9 total. Each sheet is 24"x96"X 0.5". I also used 3 bottles of gap filling expansion foam to fill some of the voids and area just below the cockpit floor. I added a small ridge at the top of the bulkhead so I will be able to install a shelf to add gas tank and battery in lazarette. All and all I am very happy with the work done so far. Hopefully epoxy work will go smoothly. Will post some more pictures once epoxy is done.


















Sandpaper
(addict)
08/19/16 06:34 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

What a great photo sequence! It's obvious from the pictures just how much preparation and work you put into this project, Mark. It looks good. I'm anxious to see the final pictures after the bulkhead is glassed and finished.

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
08/19/16 08:23 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Looking good, she should float like a cork if she ever has a problem!
If mine ever has a problem, I will have PET water bottles floating all over the lake!
Kind of like bread crumbs.
It will be like the USS Arizona that was sunk in Pearl Harbor; every once in a while a small drop of oil floats to the surface even after all these years; only SV Minnow will spit out a water bottle.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/03/16 06:29 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I have ruffed in some wire conduit so I can remove or run extra wire in the future if needed. To say the least it was a real pain to hold the conduit in place so I could epoxy it. I Then filled the gaps with white caulking which also gives it some extra strength. Hopefully with a final sanding and when I paint the interior of the cabin it will look great.











Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/03/16 06:32 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hopefully will start working on bulkhead installation this week.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/05/16 06:54 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Started epoxy work on the bulkhead, filling in all the cracks, screw holes, and joints between plywood pieces. Due to the fact some of the gaps were large I needed to use lots of epoxy filler to thicken it up. Next step is to sand, second coat of epoxy to fill in any missed areas, then onto cloth. It's been challenging working in such a small area, but so far happy with the results. I am a bit nervous about cloth work but I plan on mounting precut pieces in places before soaking with epoxy. Never done anything like this before but watching YouTube videos has been of great help.







Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
09/06/16 12:04 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Looking great!
The cloth work is the easy part. You have done 90% + of the hard stuff. Your on the home stretch now.
Well done.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/11/16 04:40 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

So I did the fiberglass cloth today. I was a bit nervous but but Happy Camper was totally right it is a lot easier than I thought. I find the trick is good preperation and having the cloth all cut to the proper size and fastened in place. I descided to use staples and it worked out great. You really need to make sure your epoxy mixing cup, mixing utensil, brush, roller, and spatula is ready to go. Also definitely make sure you have paper towels on hand for any mess you make. I had my plate of epoxy in the laz with my roller and when I was not paying attention I tipped the plate and spilled epoxy, what a mess. I definately recommend pumps for the epoxy resin and hardener to make sure correct portions are mixed . Now I need to wait to dry, sand, and then apply another layer of epoxy.









Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/11/16 04:43 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I used two layers of cloth and tacked them both in place at the same time. There was no issues with the epoxy soaking all the way through.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/28/16 09:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Starting to repair the storage areas in cabin. Epoxied all damaged fiberglass areas, will add cloth next.












Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
09/29/16 07:19 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Looking good Mark!
These are some of the toughest jobs you will ever need to do on a Piper! It's not big under there and just reaching these spots is a big pain!
Nicely done.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/29/16 11:49 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Tell me about it Happy Camper not much room at all. I am 6'4"" and trying to lay the cloth and epoxy has been very difficult. I have bruises on my arms and legs from all the awkward positions I was laying in. When I repair the gouges on the hull that is going to be a walk in the park compared to this. I spent a great deal of time but it has definately been worth it. I'm almost there with the storage compartments. Need to let the cloth dry and then add a few more rolled layers of epoxy.




Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/30/16 12:02 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I have almost finished the Porta Potti enclosure. The plan is to just remove from the boat after each use to empty. I am going to remove the head pump out as it is no longer needed. I have epoxied a wood circle piece in place and will apply final epoxy once it dries.




Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
09/30/16 08:08 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Looking good. I just cut the hose off and left it in there. Your way is much cleaner.
I see you have pulled the bow pulpit. Very good. Re-bedding deck hardware is a great thing to do in 40 year old boats!
I re-did all mine and have not had a drip all summer. (unless I spray water in the small gaps in the washboards when I am washing the boat.)
Oh well, at least the interior gets a nice wipe down that way I guess. LOL
It's a lot of work, but it's worth it to have a dry boat.
My theory is: "Wet boats smell, dry boats smell nice!"


Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/30/16 07:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Time to move onto the entrance into the cabin. There is lots of fiberglass damage under the wooden guides for the cabin door panels.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
09/30/16 07:12 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Happy Camper when re-bedding the hardware what do I use for a gasket so there are no leaks. Do I use some sort of caulking or is there some rubber I can buy?

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/03/16 08:09 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
There are many products available for this. Each sailor will have their favorite. 3M makes some very good products.
My weapon of choice is Butyl tape. I love the stuff. I have NEVER had a leak using this.
It's a bit messy and you don't want to be in a hurry when you use it, but it seals like crazy and stays soft for many years.
This is a very good write up about how to apply it and how it works:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/63554-bedding-deck-hardware-butyl-tape.html

It's pretty cheap as well. Just make sure you get the real stuff. I bought the stuff I use on Amazon.
Once the fasteners are tight, the stuff will slowly migrate out for months. Just give it a scrape with a plastic scraper and it comes right off.

Now, this author is pretty much dead against silicones. He calls it "Satin's glue" Pretty harsh! I used a special version of it to bed and seal my side windows and deck hatches because the instructions call for silicone only adhesive/sealer.
It was a Dow Corning product designed for installing windows in skyscrapers. I cant remember the number off hand. A couple of little tricks when using silicon:
1. If it smells like vinegar, don't use it on your boat! This is not a marine grade silicone and will fail in the sun relatively fast. Even some silicones called "Marine" smell like vinegar, don't use them.
2. If you snap the cap back on the tube, or put a little rubber caper on the tube and store the silicone in the fridge, it will last for more than a year! I just used a dab from a tube I have had for almost two years and it is still good.
Silicone curing is a chemical reaction. All chemical reactions are slowed when the temperature drops. Store it cold. I haven't tried the freezer, that might be even better!
My $0.02
Good luck with the project.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/03/16 09:39 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks Happy Camper!! I will order some Butyl tape. Must admit I have never heard of this product before. I have to say this is a great forum and I have learnt so much over the last year.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/03/16 09:45 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Things are coming along very well. I have now finished the bulk head, storage compartments, and the porta-Potti compartment. I need to do a final sanding of the head pump out hole, and the cabin entrance. I will post some pictures shortly. Next is to start filling all the deep gouges in the hull.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/03/16 10:05 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I am also getting close to paint the inside of the cabin. What are my choices for primer and paint to do this? I am not sure I really need to spend the big bucks for Interlux Brightside paint as the cabin is not exposed to the elements. Happy Camper if I remember correctly you used Rustoleum paint. How is that holding up? Did you use a primer coat first?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/03/16 10:18 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Happy Camper just to confirm you were using something like this?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-St...92504/100117230

Did you first apply rustoleum primer paint? Did you use spray cans or do everything with brushes?


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 08:00 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
The link you sent doesn't seem to load, but The description in the link doesn't sound right.
I used Rustoleum Top-Side enamel. It is specially designed for brush painting boats.

I ended up using this paint for everything. After two summers, one of which was in the water at the marina, it has held up very well.
I would certainly recommend this paint for the interior areas! I didn't use primer on the interior, just on the outside. Looking back, I should have primed the interior as well.
There are a few spots that look like they could have had a bit better coverage. Where I used the primer on the outside, the coverage was excellent.
The paint and primer are reasonably priced, so that's not a factor. The primer is sandable too. Even one coat builds well enough to sand. On the white areas, I used two coats, on the dark blue, I needed three.

Applying the stuff was easy; First I scuffed the surfaces with a Scotchbrite pad and then wiped up any dust with a damp cloth. Then I rolled and tip the primer, let it dry and touch sanded it.
I then thinned the paint about 10% with mineral spirits and rolled and tipped the finish coats. For the exterior I sanded with 400-600 (cant remember) grit paper to knock off the high spots.
The shine holds up very well. Pretty easy to work with.
If you are like me, you will eventually drop something heavy and scratch it. It is easy to touch up as well. wipe the area with a wax remover then use a small brush and paint over the spot.
Looks like new when your done.
There are many "roll and tip" videos on Youtube, check them out.
Use a good brush and don't work too far ahead, a couple of feet at a time, you need a good "wet edge" to keep the shine up. Use a very short nap roller (1/4") or even a foam roller. I used a 4 1/2" long roller, pretty small.
Good luck with your project, a new paint job goes a long way in making the whole boat feel new!


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 08:15 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I just looked back at the order I placed on Amazon for the Butyl tape. This was the stuff I used:

Dicor BT-1834-1 1/8" x 3/4" x 30' Butyl Seal Tape

And this is the paint I used:
Watch out for the white, it comes in gloss and semi-gloss. That is expierience speaking, I had to return one becasue mix and match isn't a good idea!
I also found this at my local big box building supply store.
https://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-206999...m+topside+paint



Bob
(addict)
10/04/16 09:57 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I used the Rustoleum Topside and primer on my Buccaneer a year ago and it has help up well.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 02:52 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the clarification Happy Camper. LOL, tells you how much I know, I thought rustoleum only sold rust paint. I was thinking to myself that's odd, I did not know you could use rust paint on fiberglass. I think I better stick to my desk job. Thanks for the links for paint and Butyl tape.

Thanks Bob, glad to see your paint is holding up well. Good to know as there is a big difference in price between rustoleum and Interlux paint. Only problem is buying rustoleum on Amazon Canada the shipping is expensive. I have a supplier for Interlux paint and the price is almost the same when you consider the shipping. I will try to find a local supplier for rustoleum.


piperman
(old hand)
10/04/16 03:14 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I painted the interior in 2005 with ordinary plastic enamel paint. I think it was the Sico anti rust kind.

I is still holding perfectly and looks as good as ever. \:\)







There was no special pre-treatment other than just wash the surface.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 06:11 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

plastic enamel paint, interesting. I really like what you did with your storage compartments. Did you overlay wood and glue to front of compartments. I really like the drape covers with buttons. What type of fabric is that?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 06:32 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Sanded and cleaned the hull and then filled all deep gouges using Interlux watertite. I have to say compared to working with epoxy Interlux filler is great if you want a peanut butter consistency.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 07:03 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Glad I am almost done epoxy work, boat and shelter is full of garbage and tools. It's amazing how cluttered everything gets when working. Once all epoxy is sanded it is time to clean shelter and boat and do a good power wash of entire boat. Not sure if I will be able to paint until the spring as it is starting to get cool. I might do the laze and storage compartments so I can see how my repaired bulk head looks.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 07:13 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Head Pump out hole has been epoxied. I need to roll on some epoxy as there is a bit of a gap between epoxy and fiberglass. I think I should have beveled the fiberglass edges a bit more for a better finish.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 07:17 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Repair almost finished for entrance into cabin. I plan on sanding all the wooden parts of the boat during the winter so they are ready for the spring.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/04/16 07:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Talking about wood finishes, my rubrails are totally destroyed. I will be changing the look of my Piper but I think I will go with the TACO rubrail kit.

http://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?category=10047%7C11324&product=38284071&code=630838004644

Any thought on this?


Sandpaper
(addict)
10/05/16 07:01 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S

Any thought on this?



Yeah, for sure.

A traditional rubrail is supposed to be sacrificial and replaceable and is intended to save the hull from dock rash. In most cases, though, the rubrail is a detail for hiding the hull-to-deck joint. I doubt that any of the sailors here would think of their rubrails as 'sacrificial', especially if they spend hours per year making them look pretty.

The TACO rubrail is likely MORE practical, and depending on your perspective, more attractive than wood on a recreational craft. I'd say: "Go for it".

Mark, this is the most popular thread in the history of the CL forums. Good job! You're doing the community a big service. We need more like you.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 10:37 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

If I were to keep Minnow, I would be replacing the rails this spring. Not because they are bad, just a lot of work to keep looking nice! Seems like a nice upgrade to me.
After one summer in the water, I spent at least three hours sanding, filling, re-varnishing and otherwise freshening up the rails.
I bet if they were making our Pipers new today, they would be installing rails similar to the one you have selected.
I wonder if the rubber inserts come in a simulated wood look? LOL.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 10:44 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

You are right Sandpaper. I have seen some posts of perfectly stained rubrails and I almost feel bad removing them as they are part of what the sandpiper is. It is almost like modifying a great classic car. Does anyone have pictures of rubber rubrails on sandpiper? If not I may be one of the first, unless someone can talk me out of it 😀.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 11:23 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the comment about the thread Sandpaper. The only reason it has so many views is I have been procrastinating this project over the last two years. Originally I was going to divide it up into many posts for each project but descided I wanted to keep it as one post as it will be a story from beginning to end. I was just looking over the thread a couple days ago to find post about interior paint. I actually bought the boat on Manitoulin Island in 2008 and did nothing with repairs until 2014 when I started thread. In hindsight I should have bought a boat closer to home as it took me around 16hr with the ferry rides to pick it up, what an adventure that was. When going over the boat I was a little disappointed about the shape it was in and there was not really any negotiation on the price. I was almost obligated to buy it due to the cost of the ferry, fuel to drive there, and all the time spent. The good news was there was no hull leaks and the cockpit floor was not soft which was a big issue with this boat. I can definately see there were things done to drain the water from the dark side but without replacing the foam. I was also dissapointed there was no head but basically just a sink with a drain to do your business. I should have asked for more pictures of the head when buying but cushions were in place and I did not know there were any other options. I have did my best to take care of that but after many hours and lots of money.

One big positive from this experience is I am having lots of fun and have never done anything like this before. I am the first to admit I have no handyman skills and I am probably the last person that should be doing this. It won't be perfect once done but at least I can say I gave it a shot. The good news is I now know this boat like the back of my hand and have spent many hours in the laz, my head in storage lockers, and a return trip from the dark side 😀.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 11:35 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Happy Camper I definately don't want to take any time sanding, filling, and re-varnishing on a yearly basis. I think I will stay with the TACO rubrail. The big decision now is do I want a white rubber insert or black. The deck is going to be white (4359) and the hull probably Saphire Blue (4241) or maybe dark blue (4316). I think the white rubrail inserts will really stand out but I worry about all the scuff marks. At least with the black the marks will not show up.

Any preferences on paint colors? Maybe I can go with a yellow hull and really stand out 😀



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 12:49 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I can tell you about my experiences with the dark blue bottom.
I absolutely love the look of a sailboat with a dark blue hull, but there are a couple of issues with this color choice:

First, the dark color shows water spots like crazy. I had to spend at least an hour per week at the marina keeping her clean. Lots of work, but I love the look.

Second: A dark hull means a light color boot stripe! Light colors right at the water line tend to get nasty looking by the end of the summer.
Now a good solution to that one would be to raise the bottom paint line a couple of inches, or leave a bit of dark blue between the bottom paint and the white stripe.
This will help keep the boot stripe out of the wave action.
Just a couple of things to think about!



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 03:51 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

That's why I want a dark blue hull, it was the picture of your boat. Your boat looks absolutely fantastic. Have you sold it yet? If selling in the spring make sure you post it on this forum first. I hear what you are saying about the water spots. I just bought a black car for the first time and it looks awesome when it is waxed and shined but after it rain it looks awful with water spots. The only good thing is I don't plan on mooring boat and will be taking it out of water after ever use and storing in shelter.

I have another question. With all the fiberglass repair I have done in the cabin and on the deck I now have some epoxy in the little bumps on the non skid areas on the fiberglass. To make it worse lots of the areas I sanded down I have worn those areas down. It's not too bad right now but something I definately will need to think about when sanding the boat and prepping for painting. When painting the deck won't the non stick areas just fill up with paint? Should I be sanding these areas right down smooth? Should I be considering non skid paint?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 05:12 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

From what I see online it looks like I don't really want to sand non skid areas? There is a product from Interlux called intergrip, or something called kiwigrip which is a thicker compound. What are everyone thoughts about painting deck with Interlux Brightside and the non skid area. I would think painting deck with Brightside would make deck slippery to some extent.

Bob
(addict)
10/05/16 06:04 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The Rustoleum paint I used on my Buccaneer flowed well enough that my non-skid floor was not effected too much.
re: the rub rails. I have used polyurethane. Had to sand and reapply every two years. Then teak oil- that never looked as good and I had to reapply it frequently. I have been using Cetol for the last few years and I am pretty happy with it.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/05/16 09:46 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks Bob. It would be interesting to know if I could buy original rubrails from C&L Boatworks and how much that would compared to TACO rubrail Kit.

Bob
(addict)
10/07/16 02:04 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I have sent you a personal message.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/07/16 08:56 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Did not get your message, I just PM you.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/11/16 10:32 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I am getting ready to order paint shortly. Does anybody know from experience how many quarts of primer and paint I will need for hull and then for deck and interior cabin. I think I will more than likely go with Brightside paint. I figure I have already spent so much money why stop now. Would one coat of primer do it and then two coats of paint?





chrisground
(crew)
10/15/16 01:34 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark, I spoke with interlux tech support, they told me to use epoxyprime coat then brightside. They also told me brightside is for above the waterline only, I can send foward you their email if you want.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/15/16 07:28 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Really? I thought Epoxy Primekote was a two part primer to be used with two-part finishes. Reading the Brightside manual it looks like you use Primekote with clear expoxy and Pre-kote with fiberglass. Really good to know but unfortunately I already bought all the primer. The only clear epoxy work I have done is on the bulkhead and storage lockers. I might just chance it and use the Pre-kote. But looking at painting the majority of the fiberglass boat you would use Pre-kote.
It would be interesting to see the email if I got this all wrong.

Preparation
BARE FIBERGLASS
In Good Condition Begin by scrubbing well using soap and water and a stiff brush. Rinse with fresh water. Remove wax and other contaminants using either Fiberglass Solvent Wash 202 or Fiberglass Surface Prep YMA601V. Sand with 220-320 grade (grit) paper. Remove sanding residue.
In Poor Condition Clean as above. Sand with 80 grade (grit) paper. Remove sanding residue. Apply Pre-Kote.
BARE WOOD Sand surface with 180-220 grade (grit) paper, wipe clean. Apply Pre-Kote. Refer to relevant datasheet. BARE METAL Sandblast or grind, remove sanding residue. Immediately apply Interprotect 2000E thinned 15% with Interlux Solvent 2316N or 2333N. Following the overcoating guidelines on the Interprotect technical datasheet, apply 1 coat of Epoxy Primekote. Sand with 220 grade (grit) paper. Remove sanding residue. Alternatively, apply 1 coat of Pre- Kote over Interprotect 2000E.
CLEAR EPOXY After the epoxy has cured, remove any amine blush by scrubbing well using soap and water, and a stiff brush, or by using Fiberglass Surface Prep YMA601V. Rinse with fresh water and allow to dry. Sand with 80 grade (grit) paper. Remove sanding residue. Apply one coat of Epoxy Primekote 404/414 or Interprotect 2000E/2001E. PREVIOUSLY PAINTED SURFACES The surface must be clean and dry. Sand with 220-320 grade (grit) paper. Remove sanding residue.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/15/16 07:46 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here is a good article.

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/ask-the-experts/what-is-amine-blush.aspx


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/15/16 07:55 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

There were a few posts that say you can paint Brightside of epoxy directly as long as surface is sanded.

Brightside works just great over properly sanded (80-100 grit random orbit) WEST epoxy with no primer at all. All the primer will do is add another layer to sand before painting - which can be good if you have a lot of shallow defects to fill and a complete waste of money and time if you don't. It does nothing at all to make the paint bond any better, resist water, abrasion or anything else better than just using Brightside unprimed. Several thin coats of Brightside will generate a lovely finish that's about


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/15/16 07:59 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

For under the waterline I plan on using Micron CSC paint as my boat will be hauled and re-launched and will not be in the water all the time.

Micron CSC
Uses Micron Technology to provide excellent, long lasting antifouling protection against all types of fouling. Controlled polishing means that it wears away like a bar of soap, reducing build up of old coatings and minimizing sanding at reapplication. It can be hauled and re-launched without repainting. Uses less copper more efficiently than old fashioned high copper bottom paints.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/15/16 11:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
I'm not sure about the coverage of this paint system. I can tell you that I needed additional coats for the dark blue! It seemed to show through a bit and I wanted to be sure it had good coverage.
I am also not sure about the correct application and build procedure (prime, paint, sand, paint, etc,) but I can tell you from experience
(I used to work in the body shop working for my dad!)
that the best advice is to follow the manufacturers instructions pretty closely.
Generally speaking, they know what they are doing. LOL
Can't wait to see the results!


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/16/16 04:33 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks Happy Camper I will use the manufacture recommendations for prep and painting. I forget I also epoxied the head enclosure so as per Chrisground I will also buy some epoxy Primekote. I did some very ruff calculations based on Interlux coverage and I think I will need the following paint. These numbers are based on one coat of primer all over and two coats of Brightside.

Interlux Pre-kote primer: 5qt
Interlux Epoxy PrimeKote: 1qt
Interlux Brightside White: 7qt
Interlux Brightside Saphire Blue: 2qt maybe 3qt. Concerned with coverage.
Interlux Micon CSC: 1 Gallon


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/16/16 04:53 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Spent the day today cleaning out the shelter and removing all the garbage and tools from boat. I need to do an overall vacuum and then power wash to remove all the dirt and will then start sanding.

Here are some pictures before cleaning.









Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/16/16 05:04 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

After painting is completed I need to plan on what hardware I am going to keep and replace. Generally everything is in good shape except for the drains and black cleats.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/16/16 05:10 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I would love to go all out and buy new hardware but it can start to get very expensive.

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=17_515_521&products_id=8894

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=19_359&products_id=2700

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=17_436_741&products_id=9419

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=17_436_741&products_id=9416


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/16/16 05:14 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I will buy some new cleats though.

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=7_289&products_id=3875

And drain plugs...

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_347&products_id=7383

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_347&products_id=7384


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/16/16 05:17 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Anyone have any links to hardware they would buy for their Sandpiper for upgrades?

chrisground
(crew)
10/16/16 06:30 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Heres the email from interlux:
My questions:

Should I chemically strip all this paint or sand it and restart from the beginning with brightside paint?

-Should I use a primer ? epoxycoat?

-Is an antifooling paint necessary as this boat will spend most of th time out of the water, or all hull painted with brightside?

The deck of the boat was also painted very badly with white peeeling unknown paint with runs and drips all over, so I was thinking again of paint stipper because the textured non skid surfaces would be impossible to sand.

Again, better to completely remove the old paint ? Primer?

I want to do this job right with and with the right products, so I need some advice

Thanks in advance

The reply:

Christian
The existing paint needs to be removed either sanding or stripping will work and is a matter of choice. Epoxy Primekote would be the prime I would recommend. As long as the boat will not remain in the water for more than a day Brightside will work, however if you leave the boat in the water for longer periods of time then the paint will blister and peel. Stripper for non-skid areas is the way to go. Yes you will need to remove all the old paint and primer. All the painted areas will need to be removed to the substrate. I have attached the product data sheets for the products I recommend for your review.

Thats a lot of work waiting for me in spring ! Cant wait to see how yours turns out Mark !


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/16/16 07:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the info Christian. It looks like we are near the same point in boat restoration. Weather is starting to get cool so I will more than likely wait to the spring to start painting. I am also looking at getting a propane heater for shelter if I find I have time during the winter to paint.

What do you plan on doing with the non skid areas? Are you just going to paint with Brightside and leave like that.


**DONOTDELETE**
()
10/17/16 06:35 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Are you doing all this massive amount of work so you can " Flip " your Sandpiper?
Seems to be the new norm around this Forum.


Sandpaper
(addict)
10/17/16 06:57 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: FreeBird

Are you doing all this massive amount of work so you can " Flip " your Sandpiper?



Gee, I hope not. This project is looking reMARKable, MARK.

One minor point for you to investigate. You might NOT be painting over fibreglass or epoxy. You might be painting over gelcoat. The original boat had a gelcoat finish on the exterior (which by the way, may be the only finish suitable both ABOVE and BELOW the waterline).

Another option might be to renew the gelcoat.

What's the life expectancy for paint? Has anyone considered blending paint with HIV and applying it with love so it will last forever?


**DONOTDELETE**
()
10/17/16 07:19 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper
 Originally Posted By: FreeBird

Are you doing all this massive amount of work so you can " Flip " your Sandpiper?



Gee, I hope not. This project is looking reMARKable, MARK.

One minor point for you to investigate. You might NOT be painting over fibreglass or epoxy. You might be painting over gelcoat. The original boat had a gelcoat finish on the exterior (which by the way, may be the only finish suitable both ABOVE and BELOW the waterline).

Another option might be to renew the gelcoat.

What's the life expectancy for paint? Has anyone considered blending paint with HIV and applying it with love so it will last forever?


Flood Penetrol? Interesting SP

It's reMarkable that he has had his boat for a couple of years and now there is a rush on to get it done.
Maybe his ol'lady is sick of looking at that old hulk in the drive?

I feel for ya brother \:D


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/17/16 07:31 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Ouch!

**DONOTDELETE**
()
10/17/16 07:42 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Why do you never ever name your boat after your wife?

You can always get another wife \:D


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/17/16 10:31 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: FreeBird
Are you doing all this massive amount of work so you can " Flip " your Sandpiper?
Seems to be the new norm around this Forum.


No way FreeBird. When it is said and done I will have sunk so much time and money into this boat I would never get a positive return on my investment. I plan on keeping her definately until I retire in the next 8 years. If my wife and I fall in love with sailing like Happy Camper I will look at getting a bigger boat. My problem is I have so many hobbies from ATV, to flying model airplanes I can't justify anything bigger right now.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/17/16 10:39 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: FreeBird
 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper
 Originally Posted By: FreeBird

Are you doing all this massive amount of work so you can " Flip " your Sandpiper?



Gee, I hope not. This project is looking reMARKable, MARK.

One minor point for you to investigate. You might NOT be painting over fibreglass or epoxy. You might be painting over gelcoat. The original boat had a gelcoat finish on the exterior (which by the way, may be the only finish suitable both ABOVE and BELOW the waterline).

Another option might be to renew the gelcoat.

What's the life expectancy for paint? Has anyone considered blending paint with HIV and applying it with love so it will last forever?


Flood Penetrol? Interesting SP

It's reMarkable that he has had his boat for a couple of years and now there is a rush on to get it done.
Maybe his ol'lady is sick of looking at that old hulk in the drive?

I feel for ya brother \:D


Actually it was my Mother-in law to my wife saying are you going to be selling that boat it is just sitting there doing nothing 😁. Honestly I have a bit of money to spend on it now and also some time off work which is the number one reason. Unfortunately things are starting to ramp up again so won't be able to keep going at this pace. I also want to spend some time sailing and can't do that in her present state.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/17/16 11:04 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper
 Originally Posted By: FreeBird

Are you doing all this massive amount of work so you can " Flip " your Sandpiper?



Gee, I hope not. This project is looking reMARKable, MARK.

One minor point for you to investigate. You might NOT be painting over fibreglass or epoxy. You might be painting over gelcoat. The original boat had a gelcoat finish on the exterior (which by the way, may be the only finish suitable bothABOVE and BELOW the waterline).

Another option might be to renew the gelcoat.

What's the life expectancy for paint? Has anyone considered blending paint with HIV and applying it with love so it will last forever?


Originally I was thinking of renewing the gelcoat but I have so many repaired areas and I really do not like the color of the hull. I was also not concerned about life expectancy of paint as I will not be leaving boat in water and it will be stored inside a shelter when not in use. I only intend on painting above the waterline and just refreshing the Antifouling paint with a good sanding and fresh paint.
As far as the gelcoat goes will that be removed when I do the sanding?
I admit I am nervous about painting as rolling and tipping is an art and I don't want to make a mess of it. At this point I just want to give it a very fresh bright brand new look and don't think I can accomplish that with renewing gelcoat due to the number of years it was left outside.

What do you mean about blending paint with HIV so it will last forever?


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/17/16 12:14 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Mark,
Unless you have bad blistering, the gel coat stays on!
This makes it much easier.
Sand through any previous paint till you get to the gel coat.
Make sure any spots that haven't been previously painted get sanded so the new paint will stick and then "have at it".
You could always spray it!
Do you know anyone who will "pull the trigger" for you?
Actually doing the spraying is the easy part, it's all the prep before and clean-up after that is all the work.
Most friends that know how to spray will do it for a couple of beers and a Saturday afternoon of chatting around the garage.

Roll and tip is really pretty easy. I had never done it before, and it wen't pretty well.
Make up some sample boards and practice on them a few times to get the feel of it.
Start with a smooth board like FRP, or Formica, of something like that vs. plywood (it's very porous and soaks up paint like crazy!). That way you won't have to build up a smooth base, you can get to the finishing steps quicker.
That's cheap insurance/confidence booster!


Bob
(addict)
10/17/16 06:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The Sandpiper,like many boats of that era were overbuilt. I have found that the gel coat is pretty thick and can be sanded to remove oxidation. Use very fine sandpaper and go slowly. I have restored 4 sailboats this way and only one (my Buccaneer) required painting. The sanding cut through to reveal the fiberglass before I could sand out the flaws. This worked very well on the deck and cockpit of my Sandpiper. The hull just need rubbing compound.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/17/16 09:24 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the pointers Happy Camper and Bob. The good news is the boat has never been painted so I don't need to worry about removing old paint. I will follow the directions on the Interlux primer and Brightside for prepping surface.

I might be able to get my hands on a paint sprayer so that might be another option. For a beginner that has not rolled or tipped before or sprayed painted which do you think would be easier? The good news is all the hardware has been taken off so spraying could be an option.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/18/16 11:51 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Mark,
Usually the biggest problem with spraying is to find a nice place to do it without making the boss mad! (she's not a big fan of the mess (over-spray) and smell)
If you have access to a place, that would be excellent.
As far as selecting a method, I would go to the test boards. I would make up at least four test boars about 2 feet square
(about 60cm square for our Northern friends that think about these things the correct way!)
prime the boards using the same primer you will be using on the boat and start doing some tests.
It takes a bit of practice to get the hang of either system, but both are pretty manageable in the long run.
Test, Test, Test! (That also equals practice which is good.)
Although I have never used one, I hear the airless sprayers can do a pretty good job as well. Be careful though, they can deliver a lot of material in a short time (runs).


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/18/16 09:10 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

It looks like I can get my hands on a compressor and sprayer to do the job. It's an HVLP Gravity Feed Spray Gun Kit. Buddy says HVLP is a high volume low pressure which generates high output and low overspray of paint. Like you said I would definately need to try some test boards to see what I find easier. Moving the boat will not be an option so I will be spraying inside of my shelter logic shelter. The good news is the cover is almost at the point to be replaced so don't care about overspray. I already have a respirator for the fumes which is good. I still have loads of prepping to do so no painting will be happening to the spring. Still have loads of work that needs to be done on wood trim, keel cover, and cabin table.

I have also talked my wife into making some new cushions over the winter 😀.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/18/16 09:12 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Also need to work on tiller and motor bracket. So much to do and not much time.....

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/19/16 12:09 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Just finished vacuuming 3 years of dirt off top of boat, I can actually see fiberglass now 😀. It's amazing how many imperfections and chips I have now found in fiberglass that need to be repaired. I will probably work on those repairs first then do a total cleaning with soap, water and a brush. Then onto sanding boat from top to bottom. Looking at everything now that still needs to be done for prep I definately won't be painting until the spring. It's starting to get colder out every day, dreaded snow will be here soon 😩.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/21/16 05:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Doing some work on the bottom of the hull. Here are some pictures for those of you who have not seen the keel. Also a keel selfie wearing filter mask 😀






Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/21/16 05:34 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Some repair work done on the hull. There were lots of deep scratches from trailer and maybe running a ground on some rocks. All patched up and hull and keel look to be in great shape.

All repairs done, now time for a good cleaning.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/21/16 05:40 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Cleanest boat has looked in 5 years. All cleaned from top to bottom including the cabin area. Starting to get excited, one step closer to painting. Next step is to sand boat down from top to bottom.

Also having a challege removing motor mount. Nuts have been removed but bolts are stuck in place. I have hit all four with a hammer and block of wood any they will not budge. I might need to heat up bolts with a blow torch to remove.




Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/21/16 05:44 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The keel seems to have a clear coating on it. Do you think it might be epoxy? I was thinking of sanding keel, applying epoxy to seal it, re-sanding, and then apply Antifouling paint. Does everyone think it is worth sealing with epoxy?

Sandpaper
(addict)
10/22/16 05:16 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Mark, looks fantastic!

While you're in the vicinity of the keel, can you confirm the basic dimensions please? Chord length, thickness, depth?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/23/16 03:41 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Depth is 24 1/2" and it is getting hard to turn keel screw. I suspect it won't go down any further than 25"

Chord length is 23 3/4"

Thickest part of keel is 3 3/4"


**DONOTDELETE**
()
10/23/16 09:28 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S
Depth is 24 1/2" and it is getting hard to turn keel screw. I suspect it won't go down any further than 25"

Chord length is 23 3/4"

Thickest part of keel is 3 3/4"


You take a nice photo Mark...

So I wasn't too far off, I wonder what Sandlepaper got \:\)


piperman
(old hand)
10/24/16 10:43 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

My keel!... I usually don't show that to everybody!




You might know the gentleman on this picture! ;\)


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/24/16 04:02 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Did you remove the keel plate and bearing to get the keel all the way down like that? I have removed the rivets and plan on unscrewing my keel screw so I can lube it. Once that is done how is everyone fastening keel plate back in place?

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/26/16 09:50 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Looking good Mark!
My rivet holes were so nasty, I couldn't get new rivets to hold anymore. I drilled and counter sunk the plate and re-drilled the holes out to fit #8 stainless steel counter-sunk screws.
Now I can remove them easily to grease and maintain the keel "giblets".
Just use nice short screws. I think they were 1/2" if I remember right.
"I have a great memory, it's just really short!"
better measure yours to be sure.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/03/16 04:09 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

After some brute force I was finally able to get motor mount off. Needed a hammer, propane torch, and grinder but was finally able to remove it 😀







Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/03/16 04:31 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Having a bit of a set back prepping boat for painting. I started to apply painters tape to prep hull for Brightside paint. I had one side of hull done and started taping the other and noticed something strange. The tape was a lot lower down one side of the hull compared to the other sometimes by 4". The previous owner who applied anti-fouling paint was way off.

This has now started me thinking on how I am going to paint the hull.

My thinking is Brightside is above the water line paint and should not be permanently submerged in water. I was planning on taping the hull and first apply the topside paint. Once the hull painting is all complete tape again just above the Brightside paint line and then apply anti-fouling paint to bottom of hull.

Does this make sense?? I thought it would be better to do this then paining the whole hull with Brightside paint then paining over the bottom with anti-fouling.

Is it possible for somebody to do some measurements on Sand Piper to tell me where Antifouling paint starts?



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/07/16 09:32 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
I lifted the cover and took a couple of measurements for you.
The first measurement was athwart-ships from the bottom of the rub rail to the bottom of the boot stripe.
The second was from the bow peak to the bottom of the boot strips along the cutwater, and the last was at the transom.

Now, for the hind sight part: when I marked this line, I used an old line from the PO.
It was not straight, or level, so I fixed that part.
I had only done one water line test of the hull when Minnow looked exactly like your boat (completely stripped of everything!) She sat nice and high and I was confident with my line.
However, after I put all my crap in there, (motor, fuel, sails, mast, windows, cushions, battery, anchors, .......) she sat much lower.

In fact, the 24" measurement is right at the water line when she is loaded.
This has the effect of making a scummy stained mess of the boot stripe because even the slightest ripple gets it wet causing lots of stuff to grow on it.
Now if you are not going to leave her in the water for more than a couple of weeks, that will not be an issue, but left in all season is a different story.

All that being said, I would raise the boot stripe a couple of inches if I were to do it again.
Your weights may be different, lets see if there are more measurements coming in to compare to.
Just my $0.02
Hope this helps.

See, in this old picture she floats like a cork! If I had to guess, fully loaded she floats almost 2" lower.
As you can see in the back, the original water line was completely messed up. I guess thats what she would float like when the compartment under cockpit sole was full of water!








Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/08/16 08:29 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the info Happy Camper. I understand the bow measurement but where is the athwartship measured from? In your example do I measure down 24" from the rub rail and follow the contour of the rub rail for the waterline? Also not sure what you mean about transome measurement. I will probably move the waterline up a couple inches as you suggested.

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/09/16 08:12 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark, The athwart-ship measurement was taken at the widest point on the beam. I measured 24 " down from the underside of the rub rail to the bottom of the boot stripe at the widest part of the boat.

As far as putting the line on the boat, You cant just follow the rub rail, it has a fair curve and doesnt stay parallel with the water line.

To mark the water line on the hull, I leveled the boat on the trailer. Your boat is probably pretty close, or can be shimmed to get to the position you like.
The pitch direction was pretty easy, I just cranked the tongue jack up or down until I liked the attitude. The roll direction adjustment required jacking up one side of the trailer because I wasn't quite level on the trailer.
I did this on my level garage floor.

Next I took a rolling stool approximately the right height and added blocks, plates, tape, etc to the top of the stool until it was the right height (right at the boot stripe)
I then attached a wooden stick about 3 feet long to the top of these "shims". I positioned the stick so it stuck out to one side of the stool. On the end of the wooden stick, I taped a pencil.
Once set up, I just rolled the stool with the shims and pencil around the boat using the pencil to mark a level line all the way around.

At the transom end, I was trying to say that the water line on my boat is just below the point where the transom meets the bottom.
Too many words to explain the transom positioning, so I just made a quick sketch.

Looking back at my previous sketches, I can see I had better learn how to spell "transom" also, My bad!

Hope that helps, I was a little vague in my last post, sorry!



Sandpaper
(addict)
11/10/16 05:17 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here is a diagram that was posted to Gepetto about waterline location. The discussion on that thread explains how to interpret this cartoon.


[/quote]


Happy, the good ship Minnow may be floating a little low in the stern. Sapphire's transom floats about 4" above flat water fully rigged and with the outboard on the bracket. I can stand on the lazz cover and still not get the transom wet.

One of the objectives while sailing Sapphire is to have the stern wave peel away from the hull without submerging the transom. I seriously considered installing a water-skiing mirror on the rudder so that I could check for this from anywhere in the cockpit. We keep the crew forward in the cockpit to trim the BOW DOWN and the STERN UP. (It's also cozy and romantic depending on the gender mix.)

A dry transom is a fast transom.

Minnow may be a little overweight in the posterior. Something to check. I don't believe that the boot stripe should be up the transom.


**DONOTDELETE**
()
11/10/16 07:15 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper

Happy, the good ship Minnow may be floating a little low in the stern. Sapphire's transom floats about 4" above flat water fully rigged and with the outboard on the bracket. I can stand on the lazz cover and still not get the transom wet.

One of the objectives while sailing Sapphire is to have the stern wave peel away from the hull without submerging the transom. I seriously considered installing a water-skiing mirror on the rudder so that I could check for this from anywhere in the cockpit. We keep the crew forward in the cockpit to trim the BOW DOWN and the STERN UP.
Minnow may be a little overweight in the posterior. Something to check. I don't believe that the boot stripe should be up the transom.


Oh my, but Mr.Tp the FrankinPiper has a good chunk of her stern hacked away no other Piper in the fleet floats like your ModPiper.

Looking at Happy's photo Minnow looks to be riding normal, just like the rest of our boats. I agree that Happy's stripe is a tad high in the caboose.


Dat
(enthusiast)
11/10/16 08:59 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper
"keep the crew forward... to trim the BOW DOWN and the STERN UP.
A dry transom is a fast transom.

Proper crew placement?

Mark, you can see that this sailors waterline is just under the transom. I used this model on Chinook's 2" bootstripe. After the boat was level, I used a laser level to layout the line.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/10/16 08:47 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

This is awesome thanks for all the great information!! I am going to start making some measurements and see what I come up with.

Sandpaper
(addict)
11/11/16 05:56 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Dat

Mark, you can see that this sailors waterline is just under the transom. I used this model on Chinook's 2" bootstripe. After the boat was level, I used a laser level to layout the line.




Laser level! Of course. That makes sense.

Here is a page from the rigging manual for the Sandpiper. It pre-dates laser levels.





From the above photo of Minnow, I see that her previous waterline was somewhat "dynamic". It curled up towards the transom.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/11/16 07:36 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

This is fantastic information thanks to everyone for providing feedback. Most of the methods described requires a level ground and getting the pitch and roll level and then drawing on water line. My boat is far from level when it comes to pitch and roll and the ground is definately not level and is gravel. Nothing to be concerned about regarding safety of boat tipping over but not good for drawing out the waterline. I think the best option for me now is to use the Gepetto post as measurements are relative to boat not the ground. I can also use Happy Camper's measurements for comparison.




Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/11/16 07:46 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

What is the scupper measurement C in Gepetto post. Is that the hull drain location?



Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/11/16 08:43 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

If I have a stern and bow measurement and run a string between these two points would I then be able to draw waterline?



**DONOTDELETE**
()
11/13/16 01:10 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

It's just eye candy Mark the boot stripe doesn't serve any real purpose.
Besides both sides will not be equal, the engine on one side causes a list to port.


Sandpaper
(addict)
11/13/16 04:49 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S

What is the scupper measurement C in Gepetto post. Is that the hull drain location?




The scupper is the gap in the toe rail on deck, just forward of the cockpit and a little bit aft of the window. It allows water to drain from the deck.

A string pulled tight between the bow and the transom may find the shortest distance using "The Great Circle Route". The string would be likely to roll down under the curvature of the hull to some degree.

I'm stuck. I don't know what you should do. Maybe someone else has some ideas.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/13/16 12:01 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Learning so much!! I now know what the scupper is. I think I now have enough measurements with everything that has been posted to prep and paint the hull in the Spring. I will definately have the waterline lower when painting hull with Interlux Brightside. Boat will be hauled in and out of the water and dont see any issue with scum forming. If I find the waterline is higher up the hull I can paint on more antifouling paint.

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/15/16 08:04 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here is an idea Mark; This wont require level ground. Find a cheap laser pointer at a big box store and mount (duct tape) it to a camera tripod.
Spend some time leveling the beam in perpendicular directions and you made a poor mans rotating laser level. That should be plenty accurate enough for water lines!

Remember, Minnows lines are too low! Raise em up at least two inches! Three would be better. I'm glad others added dimensions as well.
As far as Minnow being a bit low in the rear; I do store two gas cans back there, the battery, the outboard and an extra 15# anchor. If the water is flat, the transom is dry, any ripples, it's all wet!
Not sure why she would be lower in the rear, I know the bilge is dry! Maybe its the 200+ empty disposable water bottles I pushed into the bilge under the cockpit sole for buoyancy!
LOL


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/15/16 04:47 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I took some measurements today.

A- Rigging Manual Sandpiper
B- Happy Camper
C- Gepetto Post

A- Bow down 27" from rub rail
B- Down 42" from tip of bow following contour. Took off 3" as per Happy Camper.
C- Down 21.5" from lower crease in hull.

You can see my current antifouling paint line and Happy Camper is very close



Mid point of boat (Chain Plate)

A- No measurement. From bow measurement I wont use this
B- Down 21" from rub rail. Took off 3" as per Happy Camper
C- Down 19" from crease in hull.

You can see my current antifouling paint line and Happy Camper is very close



A- No measurement
B- No measuremt
C- From scupper down 20" from crease.

C measurement very low compared to my current antifouling paint.



From these measurements I think I am going to use Happy Campers measurements. This will move my current antifouling paint line up about another 1".

Only thing I am not sure about now is the stern measurement. Hayppy Camper can you explain where I would measure this last point from? My stern does not look correct and I want to compare with your measurement.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/15/16 04:57 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Happy Camper. Any possibility of you getting me a measurement like this?
Or maybe something near the scupper or a bit further stern?



Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/15/16 05:09 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

As you mentioned in your other post antifouling paint on minnow seems to be a bit high in the stern.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/16/16 06:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Got my hand on a laser level as well. With all these measurements and technology I should be able to figure out something 😄



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/17/16 08:26 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
She is pretty wrapped up for the winter, but I did find this pic. As you can see, half of the 2" wide boot stripe is up on the transom and the rest falls below onto the bottom.
If you really need me to measure it, I will pull back the wrapping. Let me know.
I also found this pic of the crude marking "rig" I made up.
I did find about a half inch difference side to side when I measured the boot stripe for you! I never checked after I marked I guess. Too funny.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/17/16 07:00 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I really like the dark blue hull. Enough that I will even put up with the water spots 😀. Don't worry about the measurements if the boat is all wrapped up. I will play around with the measurements I have and the laser level and see what I come up with. I want to do all the planning and sanding over the winter so I am ready to paint come Spring time.

Sandpaper
(addict)
11/20/16 07:26 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Cool laser level, Mark. That's mighty fine.

If you use it to connect the dots from the Gepetto post, you're likely to get a waterline that looks like this at the transom:



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/22/16 08:04 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Great shot Sandpaper!
However Mark, I would proceed with caution using that waterline!
Sapphire is filled with helium! He even drills holes in the hull to lighten her!
That was just about how Minnow sat when she was a "bare naked lady".
I would plan on your boat riding a bit lower than Sapphire!
If I were doing it again, I would have the bottom paint come an inch up the back of the transom!
I would start the boot stripe from there. I hate having to clean off scummy crap from a white boot stripe every time I go down to the boat.
Just my $0.02 as well.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/22/16 06:44 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the picture Sandpaper. Looking at the waterline of this picture it looks close to the Gepetto post measurement that I plotted on my hull. I definately think I am going to raise the waterline considering I will be painting the hull. I want the Brightside paint above the waterline even if this means Antifouling paint being slightly above waterline. Can't do any painting until the spring but I will tape hull shortly and post some pictures. Been busy at work to do anymore work on the boat. Oh well, the endless cycle of need the money to have more to spend on the boat 😀.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/22/16 07:03 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

So you would think I want to do something like this? I will take the laser and intercept the two points I plotted out and see where the third point ends up. Might be a bit difficult to do with boat on cradle and I can only have laser so far from hull as boat in shelter. I will see what I come up with and post some pictures.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/27/16 07:26 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I setup my laser on camera tripod. It worked very well when it started getting a bit darker. The only downfall was the laser did not cover the full length of the boat as I was confined to the boat shelter. I did a laser line from the bow of the boat to the stern following reference marks I had on the hull. I then traced a line following laser beam to about 3/4 the length of the boat. I then did a laser line from the stern of the boat to the bow intercepting the line I drew. I then traced out the remaining stern of the boat. I did the overall line a bit lower as I want to have the Interlux Brightside paint lower. When I paint on the antifouling paint I can give it a try for one season and go a bit further up the hull if required.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/27/16 07:29 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I will tape out the waterline and post some pictures shortly. Overall it worked very well and I am pleasd with the results. The waterline from bow to stern was close to what I thought it would be.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/16/16 06:56 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Some of my Interlux paint has arrived. I have the two part Epoxy Primekote for all the fiberglass epoxy work I did on the head enclosure and all of the bulk heads. I also have the Prekote primer for the rest of the hull, deck, cabin, and cockpit areas. Descided to go with the Dark Blue hull which is going to look awesome. Bring on those water spots 😀. Either way there will be no painting until the spring after all the sanding and preperation.





**DONOTDELETE**
()
12/18/16 08:36 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

2 part Epoxy paint?... you are a braver man than me.
We are looking forward to seeing your handy work Mark did you say what colour the stripe was going to be? White and gold would PoP.
Only 5 months to wait.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
12/20/16 01:17 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

2 part paint is just for all the storage compartments, laz bulk head and head enclosure due to the large amount of expoxy work I did. The majority will be hidden if it does not come out good 😀. Have not even thought about the stripe yet. More concerned with just getting the hull painted but white and gold would look good with dark blue hull. I will need to ask my wife about colors when it comes to fancy stripe accents. LOL.

Shortwave
(old hand)
01/04/17 10:33 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

For sure, 2-part epoxy is tricky to do, but the hard work pays of with a beautiful and really tough finish.
Shortwave already had a coat of 1-part paint so we opted to just sand it and go with the same kind. The hull is a big improvement over our multi-dinged original finish but probably won't wear as well as the 2-part.
Good luck!

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Mark S
(enthusiast)
04/21/17 04:00 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Slowly starting restoral again after a long winter. Wife is helping me redo cushion covers as the other ones were falling apart.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
04/21/17 04:05 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

It's amazing what you can buy sailboats for now. Starting to feel a bit frustrated considering all the money I will have spent on Sandpiper once done. I was looking on Kijiji and there is a MacGregor 25 for $3000. Originally when I bought Sandpiper I was living in Burlington and needed something smaller to store in garage. Now that I moved out to the country I have more room so the MacGregor 25 would almost be perfect. Either way I still love the Sandpiper so I should finish what I started.


http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/markham-...gationFlag=true



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
04/24/17 11:00 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

You have my sympathy!
I paid $119 for my Piper!
I now have more than $3500 invested.
A bad investment? Probably.
A bad decision? Probably not.
At some point it just becomes a labor of love.
If it helps, the Piper is way over designed and built, it is a much more robust boat.
A testament to her longevity and the quality of her groupies!


Mark S
(enthusiast)
04/24/17 06:27 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

$119 that's a great deal!! I spent $3000 and will probably have around $2500 invested when all said and done. For me it is definitely a labor of love to get it finished.

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
04/25/17 12:44 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hmmmm.
Great deal: kind of like free kittens!


kenn
(old hand)
04/26/17 03:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

There was a Sandpiper for sale in Ontario a couple of weeks ago for CDN$900. If I had the parking space, I would have snaffled it. The ad went away after a couple of days so I'm sure it found a home.

Currently, there's a couple of Sandpipers on Kijiji - one for around $6k and one for $8.2k. That's a bit more than we paid...

We're going into season 10 with ours. I just antifouled the bottom, she launches Friday.


gepetto143
(journeyman)
05/02/17 12:14 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I just saw that you guys had refered to my tread for the water line. I'll try to find some pictures of my boat on the water tomorrow to give you an idea about how she sits.

My Piper is very light though. I dont have lots of stuff in it (it's pretty much empty since I only use it for daysailing).


Mark S
(enthusiast)
05/02/17 01:38 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Perfect timing that would be great Gepetto143. I am just taping the hull and getting ready to paint shortly. Just waiting for the weather to warm up a bit.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
05/02/17 01:42 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I have bought bearings, axle u-bolts and new tires for trailer. Just spent the last couple hours with a wire brush removing paint. Couple more hours to go and I should be ready to paint.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
05/02/17 09:48 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Getting there slowly. It's amazing how some areas paint comes off really easy and other parts more difficult. I also found after using the drill with wire brush over a period of time the wire brisles start to bend in one direction. Reverse the drill direction and go against the wire grain if you can call it that it takes the paint off much easier. Something so simple but I did not think of it.



gepetto143
(journeyman)
05/02/17 04:30 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Sorry about the size of the 2nd picture.
Sadly, I could not find any closeup picture but we can still see that see is pretty much sitting right on her lines. Like I said, my boat is very light though. My engine is an Honda 8hp 4 stroke). I only have the gas tank in the lazarette (no battery) and a bucket. The cabin is pretty much empty too.





Mark S
(enthusiast)
05/14/17 09:18 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the pictures. I am just taping the boat now to prep for painting the hull. I will post some pictures shortly before I start painting.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
05/28/17 06:16 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Trailer has been primed and is now ready for painting. Finished color will be black.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/20/17 02:45 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Finally prepping the hull for painting. Should be ready to go within the next couple days for primer.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/20/17 02:47 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Trailer is also painted and ready to go just putting back on hardware and re-wiring. I will post some pictures shortly

Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/20/17 02:52 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

The plan right now is to paint the hull dark blue with Interlux Brightside. I will be using Black interlux Micron CSC for the antifouling paint. Once hull is finished I want to get boat back on trailer so I can then paint deck. I want to be able to get boat out of boat shelter so I can see what I am doing. Also will give me some air when cleaning fiberglass with cleaner.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/20/17 04:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hull is sanded and ready to go with primer. I determined water line measurements using all the feedback I received on forum.











Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/20/17 04:28 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here are some pictures of the trailer. Spent days removing old paint and rust using drill and metal brush head. Two coats of rustoleum primer and two coats of black rustoleum paint. For the hard to get to places a couple cans of rustoleum black spray paint. Paint was semigloss and I am very happy with the outcome.
All old wiring replaced and lights reinstalled. Installed new bunks instead of using the trailer pads I had before.

Installed new bearings, axle clamps, and new tires. I have not put fenders back on as I need trailer to fit under cross beams when removing boat from cradle.









Sandpaper
(addict)
06/21/17 07:15 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Mark, the boat and trailer are looking GREAT!!

Good project. Good presentation, too. We appreciate the photos and the updates.

We're anxious to see the hull painted. Keep the pictures coming.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 10:03 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I will probably get some mixed emotions on this one but I want to modernize the boat as far as the look goes. I am not going to reinstall the wooden rub rails and Have ordered Taco rub rail kit.

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=26_123&products_id=10330

For all the wood for the hatches and railings I was going to stain again but Descided to go with Brightside white paint. This will give wood a durable finish and I will not have to keep staining.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 06:12 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hull sanded with 80 grit sandpaper then wiped down with dry cloth. Hull then cleaned with Interlux #202 solvent wash. You definitely want to wear the appropriate mask when sanding fiberglass and cleaning with solvent wash. First coat of Interlux Pre-Kote primer applied. Will let dry for 24hrs then lightly sand with 120 grit paper and wipe down with brushing liquid 333. Then apply another coat of Pre- Kote primer.






Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 06:17 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Paint not as thick as I thought it would be after giving it a good stir. I was very cautious and did not want it to run so I put on a very thin coat. I rather do 3 to 4 thinner coats so there is no running.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 06:25 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral



Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 06:33 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

for applying primer I have just been using a roller. When painting with Brightside I will use the roll and tip method.

For what I can tell from YouTube video apply paint with roller up and down and then tip with brush horizontally. When tipping with the brush the recommendation is to do it very lightly.

It is also recommended to thin out paint slightly with brushing liquid 333.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 09:07 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

For anyone that has painted boat did you lightly use orbital sander between coats or do by hand using sandpaper and block?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 09:11 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I am starting to have second thoughts about painting wood white. I might just use a stain instead. What to do....What to do.....Not sure how stained wood on deck will look like now that rub rails will be rubber.

Any opinions?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/21/17 10:59 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Another question. In between coats of Brightside paint should I dry sand or wet sand with 320 grit paper? There does not seem to be a definite answer when searching the internet.

kenn
(old hand)
06/22/17 09:22 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

 Originally Posted By: Mark S
I am starting to have second thoughts about painting wood white. I might just use a stain instead. What to do....What to do.....Not sure how stained wood on deck will look like now that rub rails will be rubber.


We're lucky in that our Sandpiper's teak was mostly intact, especially the rub-rails (no splits!). I did replace the companionway trim and the hatch slide with new teak pieces I made.

We had some Cetol 'natural' deck finish left over from our reno, so I have been using that. Better protection than just oil; less fussy than spar varnish. In just two coats, it imparts a low-lustre dark-honey finish to lightly-sanded teak, and lasts two to three seasons. I'm quite pleased with it, and I think it's worth the effort.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/24/17 07:53 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Had a bit of rain on Friday so was unable to do any painting. More rain in one day of June than all of June in 2016. If it would have been any worst I could have launched my Piper.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/24/17 08:00 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Second coat of primer done. Now that priming is completed will sand with 320 grit sandpaper and clean with Interlux 333 brushing liquid. Now comes the good part, first coat of dark blue Bright Side. Never brushed/ tipped before. For anyone that has done should I add some Interlux 333 to thin the paint a bit?



Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/25/17 11:38 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Needed some new nylon track ends. Why try to buy new ones when you can 3D print them. Thanks to my buddy who spent the time measuring all the dimensions and drawing it out. Little rub down with acetone to smooth them out and will be good to go.




Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/25/17 07:08 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Printing some end pieces for rail and washers that go under rail. These 3D printers are amazing.



chrisground
(crew)
06/25/17 09:01 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Mark could you send me the file for thoses parts ? I also need them and I have a 3D printer so it would save me the time to design the part...

kenn
(old hand)
06/26/17 03:10 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Pretty darn cool.

Despite the ultimate geek cred of 3D printing, I decided my life was too short to get into it. I did splurge $200 for a smallish laser engraver kit, so that I could still play with stepper motors and G-code. Not much application for the Sandpiper though, except for engraved labels on everything.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/26/17 08:39 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Chris. Only changes I need to make is the base thickness is 1mm too thick. Also both holes need to be moved back about 1mm. I will get the files changed and get a copy next time I see my friend.

Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
06/29/17 02:18 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Mark,
When I painted Minnow, I wet sanded in between coats with 320 at first.
After the second coat was applied, I could still see the 320 sanding scratches, so from then on I wet sanded with 600 grit in between coats.
Definitely wet sand, dry can be a sticky mess.
Your sand paper will last about 50 times longer with wet sanding. It may be me, but the old body shop guy in me just cringes at the thought of dry sanding.
I found with the roll and tip process that if I was not getting a smooth enough finish (brush marks) I needed a bit more thinner or brushing liquid.
The trick is to get the paint to re-flow before it sets up. Too much paint and you get a little run.
Unless you are painting a metallic color, don't panic, just lightly brush the run smooth with the brush tips and wait for it to dry then wet sand the run/brush marks out using a flat rubber block behind your 600 grit paper.
Good luck with the painting!


Mark S
(enthusiast)
06/30/17 08:59 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks Happy Camper. I will go with the wet sanding and use brushing liquid to thin out the paint. I would post some pictures when done but it appears that Photobucket rules have changed. It looks like you can no longer post pictures to 3rd party websites unless you pay like $260 a year which is not happening. I will need to look for another picture site. Any suggestions?

Mark S
(enthusiast)
07/04/17 08:39 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Just finished second coat with dark blue Brightside. Brush and tipping working great with thinning with Interlux brushing liquid. Wet sanding between coats with 600 grit. Results are absolutely amazing. Picture does not look great as there is such a reflection on paint due to shine 😀.

Sorry about picture link trying to find new picture sharing site.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qymzbak3tlzwstz/Photo%202017-07-04%2C%201%2001%2024%20PM.jpg?dl=0


chrisground
(crew)
08/04/17 09:55 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

IMGUR.COM works ok for me Mark !

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/07/17 09:35 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks Chris. I will give it a try and post some more pictures.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/07/17 10:02 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hi Chris. I copy Link from the application and it is a link instead of showing picture directly. What HTML coding do you use to show picture in post?

Thanks Mark.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/25/17 09:37 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Finally found a new photo sharing site. Here are some pictures of the finished product.

IMG_0182 by Mark Skorski, on Flickr

IMG_0186 by Mark Skorski, on Flickr

IMG_0181 by Mark Skorski, on Flickr


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/25/17 09:41 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Cutout for porta potty I worked very well. Also added stick on LED lighting and it came out fanstastic. Can't tell from this picture but lighting goes underneath storage compartments on each side. More than enough LED's to light up cabin with very low power consumption.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/25/17 09:43 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Wife just finished curtains and I will install tomorrow and post some pictures.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/28/17 09:43 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Here are some pictures of cabin

IMG_0213 by Mark Skorski, on Flickr

IMG_0212 by Mark Skorski, on Flickr

IMG_0211 by Mark Skorski, on Flickr


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/28/17 11:02 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Finally had a sail today. Really happy with the dark blue hull. Everything went very well but keel is still sticking.

20170828_153503 by Mark Skorski, on Flickr


Sandpaper
(addict)
08/29/17 08:50 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Beautiful! And now, functional too!

The interior is phenomenal. I love it.

Interesting detail: when the locker covers are in their proper place, the finger holes are at the wrong side. My old 'Piper had that problem too. I fixed it by drilling a new hand slot along the inboard edge of the plywood cover. Isn't that curious?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/29/17 10:26 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Hey Sandpiper never noticed the finger holes being on the wrong side. I guess I could just flip them over and switch sides for each cover and I would be good to go.

kenn
(old hand)
08/29/17 11:21 AM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

What a beautiful boat.

If the keel doesn't get any easier or doesn't stop sticking, let it dry for a couple weeks after the end of sailing season and try again. If it's now easier and not sticking, you may have a small problem with the keel swelling when it's wet.

I had that a little bit (even after removing the marine growth mentioned in the other keel thread), and when I was able to jack up the trailer and let the keel descend fully, I found that the front and back seams on the keel skin were opening in places. I epoxied up the seams where I could get at them, and the keel hasn't had any binding since.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/29/17 04:23 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

Thanks for the compliment Ken. I ended up painting all the teak wood white as it was in bad shape and weathered. I must admit it looked a lot better than I thought it would. I also replaced the teak rub rail with rubber which looks O.K. I ended up installing a black rubber track with a small white insert. When I look at it now I wish I used a black insert. One mistake I did make was I did not pull and stretch rubber track enough when installing and there is a bit of ripple where each screw is located. I had somebody pulling the rubber track when I fastened in place but don't think it was stretched nearly enough. You really have to pull and have your full weight into it . You need to soak rail in very warm water for 20 mins to make it more pliable. I think I might have been a bit slow in the whole process making it more difficult. Also when fastening screws with drill in some spots tiny pieces of rubber came away. If I had the black insert you would not even notice but with the white insert it stands out a bit more. Should have greased up drill bit and screw driver bit before installing the screws. But overall I am definitely happy with the outcome and I would do it again. I will post some close up pictures of rub rail shortly.

Mark S
(enthusiast)
08/29/17 04:36 PM
Re: Sandpiper 565 Restoral

I am definitely going to lift boat off trailer this fall so I can pull trailer forward a few inches so I can lower keel. The keel was in great shape and I was easily able to get it up and down except for after I painted it with antifouling paint. Stupid me let paint try for a couple days raised keel up and then took boat off cradle back onto trailer as I was so excited to go sailing. Never thought in a million years paint would stick enough so heavy keel would not fall. When I come to think of it I also patched a few deep scratched and imperfections so maybe they are grabbing as well even though I did a good sanding job. Goods news is keel goes down with enough knocking of the keel box so all is not lost. I did notice after sail keel went up very smoothly with greased screw and new bearing kit.