Kevin
(stranger)
05/19/16 02:38 PM
Trailer Replacement

Hi all,
I've been away from sailing for a few years, boat has been patiently waiting in the back yard. Finally getting the sandpiper geared up to get her back in the water this summer. She's normally kept on her trailer, only in the water when asked. I'd like to replace the trailer, does anyone have a recomendation of a suitable make and model? With every trip meaning a launch and haulout one with lots of rollers and close to the ground and/or with an extendable tongue would be prefered. Current trailer (not the original) is sturdily built but the boat sits quite high off the ground, many of our boat ramps here (salt water) are shallow so it's difficult to push her off and haul her back on the trailer. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


Sandpaper
(addict)
05/20/16 05:55 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement




Kevin, I hadn't made the connection. Sail #1162 had belonged to our good friend Don White in Halifax. I co-piloted for Don on his cross-country trek to join Rendezvous 2008 on Lake Rosseau. The trailer was brand new that year. We were barely into New Brunswick when we detected a problem. The rear shackles on the leaf springs had over-extended and bottomed out. The trailer was riding hard with no suspension and the tires were wearing into the fenders.





Don used a roadside truck repair welding shop to re-position the shackles. We had no more issues after that.





Yes, the boat did sit high above the pavement.


Boulter
(member)
05/20/16 10:17 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Hi:

Couple suggestions.

Make a tongue extension like I did. Start with 10 feet of 2x2" steel 1/4" wall (maybe 1/8" wall, don't remember) or whatever section matches your existing tongue. Weld on a ball 2 feet from the aft end (adjust as required to fit). At the aft end, weld on two strips of `1/8" steel such that when the extension is underneath the tongue with the extension ball inserted into the trailer coupler, the two strips extend sufficiently above the trailer tongue to drill holes for a pin (1/2" pin inch is plenty). Attach coupler to the forward end of the extension.

I use the pin to trap the extension on the trailer frame while under way, and finish off the tie down with 3 short buckle straps custom sized to the job.

Second idea is to get smaller wheels as the ones on your trailer look quite large given the ~2000 pound load.

One or both of the above might be a whole lot easier and cheaper than swapping trailers.

Regards,

Boulter


Sandpaper
(addict)
05/21/16 06:39 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

This was the lowest ride I had ever seen. It was Wind Song's trailer at the 2009 Midland Rendezvous. The camera height here would have been only about 5'-0" and is above the cockpit coaming while the boat is on the trailer.





Here is what made her so low to the road:
  • The wheel span was wide enough to let the hull settle between the fenders. Most of our trailers require the boat to remain above the fenders. You want as wide an axle kit as is available.
  • The axle was slung above the leaf springs rather than below. This reduced the stack-up height by several inches (2x the leaf spring stack height + 1x the axle girth).
  • Wind Song's trailer had bunks rather than rollers. It only had rollers on the centre-line. I noticed from surveying my Sandpiper trailer photos that trailers with articulating roller assemblies tended to elevate the boat above the pavement. Bunks tend to have the lowest profile.






Sandpaper
(addict)
05/22/16 05:46 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

This photo is from the haul-out at the 2010 Gatineau Rendezvous. The picture has captured a few of the various trailer configurations across the fleet.




Jenny's trailer, on the extreme right, looks to have a narrow wheel span. Jenny is perched high above the fenders. Kiwi John traveled with a 6-foot step ladder in order to access the deck from the roadway. Jenny would probably be considered an over-height load on the Chi-Cheemaun ferry.

Next to Jenny is Latis. Look how wide her trailer's wheels are set. Latis is right down between the fenders with space to spare.

Bob, can you tell us whether Latis is on bunks or rollers?

The rest of the boats in the picture seem to be at similar heights, an inch or 2 above Latis.

Any observations from the rest of the fleet?


Bob
(addict)
05/22/16 09:00 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Latis' trailer has rollers down the middle and bunks on each side.

Shortwave
(old hand)
05/24/16 12:58 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

We've got bunks which we like because of the way the load is spread out along the hull. (We're next to Latis.) It did make the hull sit just a wee bit higher though. Usually not a problem except for really shallow ramps.

D'Arcy, Shortwave


kenn
(old hand)
05/24/16 07:43 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Our boat is on the left in that photo (white hull, mast up) besides Shortwave (blue hull).

We apparently have the 'stock' Viscot trailer. I shifted the winch post forward a little to imcrease the tongue weight and to ease the pressure of the front rollers on the hull.

Regarding height, I've found that we can launch/retrieve at just about any public boat ramp, though sometimes I need to get the rear axle of our SUV wet.

To Kevin: based on Sandpaper's pix of the trailer, it looks like you could add more keel rollers in the center, and replace the existing rollers with bunks... and you'd have lowered the boat another 4" maybe. I don't know if a new trailer would give you much lower than that. Just a suggestion.


Kevin
(stranger)
05/25/16 09:11 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Don was quite disappointed with the trailer, after a lot of work on it I'm frustrated with it too. I've lowered the boat on the trailer as much as it can be. Flipped the axle to the upper side of the springs, lowered the rear bunks, moved the fenders out an inch, no more room between the hull and fenders for it to come down any further. The trailer was made with an extendable tongue , only 18" extension and it really makes no difference.
I like the profile of Wind Song's and Latis' trailers, low and wide. Were they custom built or stock models? What's the width between fenders on them?
Have looked at EZ Loader and Easy Hauler specs but not sure what dimensions (weight capacity, width between fenders) I'm looking for.

Thanks for all the info everyone.


Sandpaper
(addict)
05/29/16 05:56 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Here are a couple of notes about Sapphire's trailer.

There was one particular incident where instead of pulling the boat onto the trailer, the winch post just started to slip backwards on the tongue. To prevent this from ever happening again, the winch post was relocated a few inches more forward and the front clamping bolt was passed inside the little support stand under the tongue. This modification also meant that the boat parked a little more forward on the trailer. A happy side-effect was that the keel could then drop down in front of one of the centreline rollers. To take advantage of this new position, a crosser (a shelf) was installed under the trailer. While traveling, we are now in the habit of lowering the keel onto a rubber pad on the crosser to take the keel weight out of the hull.

The side rails of the Wiscot trailer are perforated for mounting and relocating all kinds of hardware. We have moved the axle assembly aft one set of holes. This was done to make the trailer more stable on the hard while not connected to the tow vehicle. On a few occasions, the trailer had tipped up while I was walking around at the transom of the boat. I think I once went for a teeter-totter ride while crouched down inside the lazarette. Relocating the axle has put more load on the tongue. It's all I can do to lift the hitch onto the ball with the boat on the trailer. But it doesn't tip up while I'm wandering around on deck.

Moving the wheels back also helped that license-plate problem I mentioned in another post. But there is another benefit that I hadn't considered until now. If the ramp slope is 15% or more, then the boat will float in about 1/2" less water than the original set-up. Hmmmmm. Now that is interesting. I'm even smarter than I look.


Shortwave
(old hand)
06/02/16 12:16 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Another consideration for a trailer is the width.  Shortwave's trailer may not let the boat sit as low as others, but If we had a wider wheel base to lower the hull it would be very hard backing the trailer down our driveway.  Even now we deal in inches.  Although the boiler exhaust comes out from our house into the driveway it is at the right height to let the hull pass over it.
The picture also shows Lynda using a Viking windlass to install high performance double leeboards onto Shortwave.

[img]http://[/img]

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Sandpaper
(addict)
06/02/16 05:39 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Ok, D'Arcy, what is Lynda really doing? I'm guessing that those are NOT high-performance daggerboards, because I'm pretty sure that Shortwave does not have a canting keel.

The Viking windlass set-up, is that a clever machination for re-fitting the teak rub rails? You guys are just so smart. I tip my spangenhelm to you.

BTW, Sapphire is back from the welding shop and should be floating off her trailer this afternoon. Mast UP for the weekend. I'll get to try the modified mainsail for the first time. Stay tuned.


Shortwave
(old hand)
06/02/16 10:46 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

You are right Dennis, we gave up on the chanting keel; it was just not fast enough. As you know we regularly exceed the 6 knot barrier while doing our glory passages in the Gulf. However, we know that we can do better! Canting keels are old news; foils are the way of the future.
The black carbon fibre extensions will support the foils now in the testing stage.
Cables in the base of the mast relay critical sail angulation data to the crew so they can trim the foils and rudder trim tab in sinc with the sails. We never come off the foils while gybing and tacking.
Hope to give demo for Sophie at Mazinaw.

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Sandpaper
(addict)
06/03/16 07:00 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

D'Arcy, you are a sailing genius. If this works, you'll make the Air Hammers look like Lego toys. I can't wait to see it at Sail Mazinaw.

Have you decided on the style of helmet for you and your crew?

Here are a couple of photos on Sapphire on her trailer. She is down and dirty. Hard to scrub that hull while she is in her bunks.





Sandpaper
(addict)
08/16/16 07:14 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement




Here is a gem that was parked near a boat launch on The Maz. It had coloured solid plastic lumber on the bunks. Sweet. The lumber looked to be 3/4" and 3/8" thick.

I didn't notice at the time, but check the axle arrangement in the photo. The springs are below the axle AND there looks to be a cast offset at the axle end. She's a low rider. Why wouldn't EVERY trailer be built like this? It's either stupid or rude to design a boat trailer with a mile of road clearance.


**DONOTDELETE**
()
08/16/16 11:01 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

OMG... You never suspend a spring from an axle, the only thing stopping trailer failure is 2 small u-bolts and 4 nuts.

Spring on top of axle is the correct way, full load is on the axle and the u-bolts keep it all one.
If you look at the front shackle there are 2 adjustment holes for lowering the suspension that are not being used.

The guy needs to fix this before he is caught in a roadside inspection blitz.


Sandpaper
(addict)
08/17/16 06:47 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: FreeBird

OMG... You never suspend a spring from an axle, the only thing stopping trailer failure is 2 small u-bolts and 4 nuts.

Spring on top of axle is the correct way, full load is on the axle and the u-bolts keep it all one.



Oh, oh. Sapphire's trailer has the leaf springs slung UNDER the axle. This is so common that I would have assumed that it is safe and legal. But Mr. FreeBird, you are the forum's Master Highwayman, so I should not doubt your word. How can we determine if this arrangement is illegal? What document do we search for verification?



 Originally Posted By: FreeBird

If you look at the front shackle there are 2 adjustment holes for lowering the suspension that are not being used.



Good observation! I'm pretty sure that Sapphire's trailer only has a single pivot point. I'll check for multiples, or even just enough real estate to drill a new pivot hole. Thanks!


**DONOTDELETE**
()
08/17/16 08:20 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Is this a mod you have done?

You are also missing a leaf band on the rear of the stack.
Any play in the bushing's?
The front of the spring is fixed the rear floats if the rear where fixed the thing would break in the first pothole.
Put your spring back on top and bolt the front in the hole closest to the frame.
Just eyeballing it from a grainy photo I would say the ride height is going to be close to what you have now.


Dat
(enthusiast)
08/17/16 11:56 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Springs?
Unsprung, that's the way to go


Sandpaper
(addict)
08/31/16 07:06 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

This is our new acquisition. Ken (the windsurfer and free-diver) has named this little RV the Landpiper!

It doesn't have leaf springs. It too has torsion suspension, AND, standing headroom.




Crystal and I are leaving on Tuesday for a 4-week excursion of Western Canada.

FreeBird, keep the forum alive in our absence. More sailing in October.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
09/06/16 11:57 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Too funny Sandpaper,
My dad has one just like it, Trillium's are kind of tough to come by in the US. All we can generally find are Scamps.
Have a good trip!



**DONOTDELETE**
()
09/22/16 03:50 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper
This is our new acquisition. Ken (the windsurfer and free-diver) has named this little RV the Landpiper!

It doesn't have leaf springs. It too has torsion suspension, AND, standing headroom.




Crystal and I are leaving on Tuesday for a 4-week excursion of Western Canada.

FreeBird, keep the forum alive in our absence. More sailing in October.


LandPiper spotted Wally World in Huntsville this morning, tried to make contact but alas crew of the LandPiper parked with the four wheelers... no space for the 18's.

Lurker's hang in there Mr.Tp will be back soon.


Sandpaper
(addict)
09/22/16 09:19 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Nope, not the Landpiper. We are still in Manitoba tonight through Sunday. We're at Riding Mountain National Park for a couple of days, then perhaps Bird's Hill Provincial Park for a few.

Here is what we saw when we woke up Tuesday morning in Banff.



There is talk of 80mm of rain in the next day or two where we are. That should be enough to float a boat.

Take care. Lurking is welcome.

[Edit: BTW, blew a tire on the trailer in Nord Akota and had to replace the other cuz it went egg-shaped in Alberta. The trailer had been parked in a barn for 6 years, eh?]


**DONOTDELETE**
()
09/22/16 10:24 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Well isn't that all together just plain freaky...
What are the odds?
Brrrr don't bring that white crap back with ya.
Happy trails \:\)


Sandpaper
(addict)
10/27/16 07:13 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Before Sapphire comes out of the water, I want to replace the cedar bunks on her trailer. Here is a shot of the trailer as she sits in a storage field.




This is the plastic 2x6 that I purchased from Taylor's Recycled Plastic Products near Peterborough. It's not the fancy coloured plank, but it's about 1/3 the price. It promises to machine like wood. I'll let you know if the table saw blade gums up and begins to smoke.




Note: I think that Photobucket is slowly imploding. I was not able to log on this morning to post these pictures. I had to go to Tinypic. Like anything on the cloud, what will happen to the 1500 photos I have archived if the website becomes defunct?


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/27/16 04:17 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

I had the same issue with Photobucket about 1 week ago and was unable to log on for about 5hrs during the day. Hopefully it does no go down or I will loose all my forum post pictures. What are those side support pads made out of?

Dat
(enthusiast)
10/28/16 05:34 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Testing photobucket, only took about 15 minutes for one picture.

The season is over, back on the hard.


Looking forward to Sail Mazinaw July 08, 2017


**DONOTDELETE**
()
10/28/16 07:02 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Dat
Testing photobucket, only took about 15 minutes for one picture.

The season is over, back on the hard.


Looking forward to Sail Mazinaw July 08, 2017


Since when does a Sandpiper have a tandem trailer?
When it's not a Piper...


Sandpaper
(addict)
10/28/16 07:51 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Hey, what is that? That's not a Sandpiper! Shouldn't there be orange cones around that rig? Do you need escort vehicles when towing that on the highway?

If she does come to Sail Mazinaw, she may have to anchor out and we'll use a Sandpiper as a tender to ferry her passengers, crew and stewards to and from the dock.

Check this out. This is what The Maz looks like this morning:



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/28/16 11:31 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

That looks like a pretty good sign it's time to call it for the season!
Brrrrr.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
10/28/16 06:13 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

One day nice fall colors the next day snow. The leaves have not even totally fallen off the trees yet.

Sandpaper
(addict)
10/31/16 06:27 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement



This is heavy, hard material. It's like working with very hard oak. Speeds + feeds were critical to avoid stalling the saw or popping the breaker. I had to sharpen my saw, mid-project.

The shiny bits are metal. They are non-magnetic, so they're most likely aluminum. There were loose bits of unground plastic sheeting inside the material. And, it wasn't dimensionally consistent. The width ranged from 5-1/4" to 5-5/8".

Still, I'm pleased with the result and these should last as long as the trailer.

The next step is to clamp, drill, counter-bore, and bolt the bunks to the trailer.

More later.



Note: Photobucket is still screwed up. This photo failed to upload on the first 2 attempts and I had to go through the back door to copy the link. Only 11 minutes to get this photo posted here.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
10/31/16 07:31 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

I think you have found a perfect use for this type of re-use/re-cycled material.
Where did you get it? I have never seen this type of material available in the US.
Nice!


Sandpaper
(addict)
11/01/16 08:15 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Mark S

What are those side support pads made out of?



Mark, the side bunks were made from a type of urethane rubber material. It was from the scrap bin where I had worked. I can't help you beyond that. They have stood up well to the environment. I suppose they have met the "success criteria", unlike so many material things we purchase.

For example, windshield wipers have the success criteria built right into the name. However, the engineers forgot that we get sub-zero temperatures 4-5 months of the year. Wipers meet the success criteria 65% of the time.

The weather is to be nice tomorrow. Sapphire should be coming out of the lake. Her sailing season will be over. Bring on the winter projects.


Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/01/16 08:52 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Thanks for the info Sandpaper. I think I am just going to cover my bunks in the traditional carpet. Your probably the last boat in the water. Better get her out before she is frozen in place.

Bob
(addict)
11/02/16 11:45 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Latis is still on the water. It won't be long.

Sandpaper
(addict)
11/03/16 07:03 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement



You Go, Latis!

Sapphire went for her last sail of the season yesterday. The conditions were rather "pedestrian", very unspectacular. The temperature was unseasonably warm, so that made it very comfortable.

She is still swinging from her anchor this morning, but the sails have been fold' and rolled, the boom is put away and the rudder is in winter storage. If the rain stops, I'll complete the trailer project and haul Sapphire out of The Maz.

The season is over. Do us proud, Bob. Show us some late-season sailing pix.


PS: After 10 minutes of "Uploading" at PhotoBucket, I switched over to TinyPic. You'd be wise to back-up anything you have been saving at PhotoBucket and move it to a hard drive. "The Cloud" does not have a silver lining.


Bob
(addict)
11/07/16 10:09 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

I have been a little preoccupied. My 1st grandchild was born October 17th.

Bob
(addict)
11/07/16 10:10 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Miles Alexander Bowman 8 lbs 13 oz

Bob
(addict)
11/07/16 10:12 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Here is photo from my recent overnight stay in Windsor.


Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/07/16 11:20 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Congratulations Bob!
That's awesome.
Enjoy.
Grand-kids are great, I wish mine lived closer.


Sandpaper
(addict)
11/08/16 05:46 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Bob, that is incredible! He's a tall little sailor. A miniature of his Grandpa. You'll have him on the windward rail in no time. Congratulations to you and the entire family. You done good!

.
.
.
.

On the topic of trailer upgrades, here is Sapphire's ride with the new plastic bunks installed. It went quite OK.

One positive side effect: the boat was very easy to winch forward into her final position when the trailer was high and dry on the roadway. Now that is cool. Self-lubricating trailer bunks.




Did you notice where the keel rests? That's 300lbs not supported by the hull when the boat is on the trailer. It also has the effect of keying the boat onto the trailer. The Angle of Vanishing Stability (AVS) is somewhere near upside down.


Bob
(addict)
11/18/16 02:00 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Latis is now off the water
Her summer home:

The Lake Orion Boat Club

Empty docks

Last sail (jib only)



Sandpaper
(addict)
11/25/16 05:39 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Sweet photos, Bob! You were sailing just a week ago. You probably didn't notice, but you had the entire fleet and their crews on that boat with you. That is vicarious sailing.

Here's a glimpse of our life on The Maz. Crystal had to shovel out the boat so that we could load the Blazer's snow tires into it. The boating season ends when the lake freezes over.



Sandpaper
(addict)
11/27/16 05:19 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Sapphire swung on her anchor for about a month before she was hauled for the season. When the anchor was retrieved, it brought some driftwood with it. It's a wild artform. That wood may have spent half a century underwater. But despite its outward appearance, it's been cut and burned in the woodstove. It's hard to understand that wood from the bottom of the lake can burn so well.



Mark S
(enthusiast)
11/27/16 02:33 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

You know the boating season is over when your boat is in the water and covered in snow. Nice driftwood sandpaper, you could mount that on the front of your dock 😀.

Sandpaper
(addict)
11/28/16 05:42 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Mark, we live in paradise. We're on the east shore of Mazinaw Lake. There is no road access. We travel by boat while the water is open, and by snowmobile when there is at least 6" of ice. In the shoulder seasons, we walk through the bush over rocks and fallen trees on the S&M Trail (Stumps and Minerals).

That explains why Sapphire stays in the water as long as she does.

Here is a photo taken many years ago on Rice Lake. I believe the date was December 5th. That may be the Canadian record for late-season Sandpiper sailing.



Happy Camper
(enthusiast)
11/28/16 11:28 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Brrrrrr.
You guys are hard core!
I feel like such a wimp...


Shortwave
(old hand)
12/09/16 11:41 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

We used to sail all year long, but as we get one days of cracking a frozen sheet and occasional February capsize seem a little less appealing.

D'Arcy, Shortwave


**DONOTDELETE**
()
12/10/16 02:34 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

I was amazed during the LO300 in July when daytime temps. in the 80's how cold it got at night when the sun went down.
More than once I found myself scrambling for track pants and a sweater I was glad the 1ST Mate made me take warm clothing.


**DONOTDELETE**
()
12/10/16 02:34 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

I was amazed during the LO300 in July when daytime temps. in the 80's how cold it got at night when the sun went down.
More than once I found myself scrambling for track pants and a sweater I was glad the 1ST Mate made me take warm clothing.


Sandpaper
(addict)
01/31/17 06:42 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Sailors, meet sledders.

Everybody on this forum is probably aware of my obsession for shallow-launch trailers. I've talked before about the consideration for a low-profile 13" tire on my trailer to save a half inch of road clearance. Then the season changed and the snowmobilers started to arrive with their trailers.

This is an 8" tire. It is rated for 940 lbs. If that is a bit shy for a Sandpiper, trailer and gear, a 10" snowmobile trailer tire is rated to 1100 lbs. Instead of saving fractions of an inch, these wheels would save inches.

If I had not put new tires on the rig this past spring, I'd be shopping for 8" rims right now. How could we have missed this? Has anyone seen 8" wheels on a boat trailer?




Shortwave
(old hand)
02/06/17 10:56 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

I'm sort of from the old school of thought that a big wheel trailer is the way to go. When you think of all those extra revolutions a small wheel goes through I'm thinking they will wear out much faster.
I've got a small wheeled folding bike and it's great but the tires wear out faster. The trade off on a bike is it can be stored on a boat because the wheels are so small.
With all the weight off a boat trailer I'd be concerned about premature blow-outs while highway driving.
Couldn't you just put the big wheels wider apart so the boat could sit really low?

D'Arcy, Shortwave


Sandpaper
(addict)
02/08/17 04:21 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

Check out this tire size site:
  • Sapphire's current 13 inch 175/80-13 tires have an overall diameter of 24.1" and a load rating of 1,360 lbs.
  • The 8 inch 215/60-8 tires have an overall diameter for 18.3" and the 'D Load Range' rating is 1,165 lbs.
That's a difference of 3" of axle height. On a shallow-sloped ramp, that could make the difference between soaking the rear brakes in the lake, or submerging the exhaust pipe below sea level, or putting the drive wheels into the slimy watermark.

These are all legitimate considerations.

I'm just kind of amazed that I have not seen 8" wheels on a boat trailer (since the 1970s).


Little Wave
(enthusiast)
02/08/17 10:06 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper
Sailors, meet sledders.

Everybody on this forum is probably aware of my obsession for shallow-launch trailers. I've talked before about the consideration for a low-profile 13" tire on my trailer to save a half inch of road clearance. Then the season changed and the snowmobilers started to arrive with their trailers.

This is an 8" tire. It is rated for 940 lbs.


If the haul or tow was a very short distance then smaller tires would merit. But from hauling our Sandpiper to all the Rendezvous and we have mid size trailer tires with tubes inside then, I am surprised how Warm they become when towing. Tire pressure is correct but when the boat is full of gear there is some extra weight. At all stops or breaks that we take when towing to/from a rendezvous we immediately as a precaution touch the hubs and tires to detect any abnormal high heat. Smaller sized tires would even heat up more.

Since your trailer is a wishcott like mine. Why not instead of the tires why not lengthen the trailer. Install a trailer hitch extension, it's real easy only cost me $250. Cut off the hitch get 10 foot a square tube that will slide inside you main hitch tube and wield a new hitch to it. Drill 4 holes in both tubes. One at the hitch end and one at the frame end for a compact mode when towing and the drill a third for a second pull out position. The forth is for a locking device so no one can steal your extension

This will give you a 8 foot extension hide/slide away hitch. It's the best thing that I did to my trailer 8 years ago. My truck tires never touch the water when launching with the extension and I have been to some shallow boat launches.

At one very shallow launch, Before the hitch extension had to take off the stern trailer hull side supports to get the piper to float up and back off the trailer because of the small grade angle of the launch ground sand. Next step was to dig a trench in the sand for the tires. With the extension hitch never again. The muffler was way under water and water was all most coming in the back of the truck. Left the truck motor running the entire time.

Personally go with the best tires, and do the extension hitch, having a flat on some back road highway is a real pain.

How many when trailering carry a hydraulic jack and lots of wood for cribbing (enough to fill a milk carton or recycle box full). We do as if your spare tire fails you have to now unhitch at the side of the road. And as Murphys law states usually says will happen at the worst spot on the road at the worst time.


Sandpaper
(addict)
02/10/17 07:13 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Little Wave

This will give you a 8 foot extension hide/slide away hitch. It's the best thing that I did to my trailer 8 years ago. My truck tires never touch the water when launching with the extension and I have been to some shallow boat launches.



The 8" wheel, low-ride trailer approach could save 1 - 3 feet of launch ramp length (depending on the slope). However, Little Wave's tongue extension saves 8 feet of launch ramp length right off the bat. That's an order of magnitude improvement without the risks associated with small diameter trailer wheels.

It's something to ponder.

How does the extension impact the back-up maneuvering? Is the trailer more responsive or less responsive to steering input with the longer wheelbase? Is it more difficult, or is it easier, to back into alignment with the ramp? These would be good questions for our resident trucker.

I still like the idea of getting the payload as low to the pavement as possible.


piperman
(veteran)
02/10/17 10:06 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

IMHO, the longer it is, the easier it gets! Just try to backup one of those very short rental trailers! But more space is needed to manoeuver. \:\)

Sandpaper
(addict)
02/11/17 07:43 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: piperman

Just try to backup one of those very short rental trailers!


True that! Those short little wagons seem to have a mind of their own. Even with the steering wheel pinned hard to the stop, they will continue to go where they are aimed.

Michel, don't you have a video of an impressive back-up to your blind side. Nice!



On a slightly different note, does anyone have experience with PVC rollers? My piper has an embarrassing black smudge where the bow roller fights against the winching action. I assume that the PVC rollers are non-marking.



piperman
(veteran)
02/12/17 02:54 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

"Michel, don't you have a video of an impressive back-up to your blind side. Nice!"

Yeah! Sometimes I get lucky!... ;\)

https://youtu.be/skKSkVi1KII


Little Wave
(enthusiast)
02/15/17 01:55 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Little Wave

This will give you a 8 foot extension hide/slide away hitch. It's the best thing that I did to my trailer 8 years ago. My truck tires never touch the water when launching with the extension and I have been to some shallow boat launches.


 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper

The 8" wheel, low-ride trailer approach could save 1 - 3 feet of launch ramp length (depending on the slope). However, Little Wave's tongue extension saves 8 feet of launch ramp length right off the bat. That's an order of magnitude improvement without the risks associated with small diameter trailer wheels.

It's something to ponder.

How does the extension impact the back-up maneuvering? Is the trailer more responsive or less responsive to steering input with the longer wheelbase? Is it more difficult, or is it easier, to back into alignment with the ramp? These would be good questions for our resident trucker.

I still like the idea of getting the payload as low to the pavement as possible.


Yes, lower is better for launching.

When towing, the extend a hitch only add 3 inches to the total length, as it sides within the original tubing but adds some more weight that is only between the front end of the trailer frame and hitch. If you wanted to keep the original hitch intact then it would be 1 foot longer when towing.

It only takes an additional 5 minutes to extend or retract the extend-a-hitch. It could be done quicker with quick release pins but i prefer the nut and bolt types. The third pin is a safety lockable one, maybe three is a tad overkill.

We extend the hitch at the last moment mostly when in tight quarters, otherwise you can extend it just after rigging. With a longer wheelbase naturally the turns are a tad wider taking more room. (you have power steering right, grin!)

Here is the overall general process.

1) Rig the boat, raise the mast, and get all fenders and lines ready.
2) Line up and backup to the top of the ramp on level ground.
3) Block the trailer tires, jack up, unhitch, and unplug power.
4) Move the vehicle forward
5) Remove/unbolt the two pins (rear and forward) and safety lock pin.
6) Slide out hitch
7) Replace two pins (both forward as safety lock not needed)
8) Backup vehicle and re hitch.
9) remove trailer blocks and proceed to launch.

To prevent the extend-a-hitch's tube from rattling when towing we use both a rear and forward pin.

This summer I'll take some pictures of it for you but basically it like the following, but the tube slides "within" the trailer tube and not stored underneath. Chains are on the extend a hitch, not like this example photo.



Hey Dennis try this shorter version? Stow in the trunk with the regular ball and receiver. Looks to be about feet 4 feet long. Say I hope this guys doesn't blow a fuse. Don't know what type of boat he had either?



**DONOTDELETE**
()
02/16/17 01:09 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Little Wave

But from hauling our Sandpiper to all the Rendezvous and we have mid size trailer tires with tubes inside then, I am surprised how Warm they become when towing. Tire pressure is correct but when the boat is full of gear there is some extra weight. At all stops or breaks that we take when towing to/from a rendezvous we immediately as a precaution touch the hubs and tires to detect any abnormal high heat. Smaller sized tires would even heat up more.


NEVER RUN RADIAL TIRES WITH INNER-TUBES!!!!!
It causes the tires to overheat which can result in blowout's.
Please don't tell me you are using bias-ply tires on your trailer?
That technology died in the 60's.

Omg you can't turn your back.


**DONOTDELETE**
()
02/23/17 06:47 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: FreeBird
 Originally Posted By: FreeBird
 Originally Posted By: Little Wave

But from hauling our Sandpiper to all the Rendezvous and we have mid size trailer tires with tubes inside then, I am surprised how Warm they become when towing. Tire pressure is correct but when the boat is full of gear there is some extra weight. At all stops or breaks that we take when towing to/from a rendezvous we immediately as a precaution touch the hubs and tires to detect any abnormal high heat. Smaller sized tires would even heat up more.




NEVER RUN RADIAL TIRES WITH INNER-TUBES!!!!!
It causes the tires to overheat which can result in blowout's.
Please don't tell me you are using bias-ply tires on your trailer?
That technology died in the 60's.

Omg you can't turn your back.




Everyone knows? or No one cares?

Does make me wonder.


Installing a tire onto a rim is no easy task it actually involves tire irons to force the tire on.
I mean when you think about it punching the valve stem out of the rim is really not all that hard but
trying to get the inner-tube valve into the hole all the while stuffing the tube into the tire and forcing the new rubber on just blows my mind.


kenn
(old hand)
03/21/17 06:54 PM
Re: Trailer Replacement

 Originally Posted By: Sandpaper
On a slightly different note, does anyone have experience with PVC rollers? My piper has an embarrassing black smudge where the bow roller fights against the winching action. I assume that the PVC rollers are non-marking.


Having 12 black rollers on our trailer... I've taken to putting old socks onto them. Stops the black marks.


Sandpaper
(addict)
05/31/17 06:05 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement


Wheel Chocks by Sandpaper, on Flickr

Fenders . . .


Sandpaper
(addict)
09/12/17 07:21 AM
Re: Trailer Replacement


Rodger's Trailer by Sandpaper, on Flickr


I rode from The Maz to Ganonoque with Rodger to help launch and rig his Mac 26. He was getting her ready for a cruise in The 1000 Islands. Here is an interesting story.

Rodger just recently added the dual axle to his trailer. Prior to that, the factory trailer only had a single axle. Rodger's estimate of the boat, gear, and trailer was 4000 lbs. He also claimed that he had averaged 22+/- L/100km (11 mpgUS) with the single axle. Now, with the dual axle, we made 18 L/100km (13 mpgUS)at 80km/hr on Hwy 41, and 19 L/100km (12 mpgUS)at 100km/hr on Hwy 401.

That is remarkable! The numbers are surely empirical and anecdotal, but Rodger is not a person to exaggerate. I trust his observations.

So, what do you think? How would you explain a dual-axle arrangement saving such a significant amount of gas?